1A-A: Patrick Guthrie

Patrick Guthrie 1704SCT – 17??SCT and Agnes Foord
of Dundee and St Vigeans, Angus, Scotland

PATRICK GUTHRIE
Parents: James Guthrie (merchant) 1669SCT-1710SCT and Christian Scott 1669SCT-aft.1710SCT (See Notes)
Birth: Abt. Oct 1704 (if correct parents selected). Alt: 1689 or 1700. See Notes.
Birth Location: Angus, Scotland – Dundee or Rescobie
Marriage / Location: Agnes Foord on 3 June 1726 at St Vigeans, Angus, Scotland
Occupation: Unknown
Death: After 1762
Death Location: Unknown, probably in Angus, Scotland
Burial Location: Unknown, probably in Angus, Scotland
Notes:
YDNA testing of a descendant of James and Cristian (Scott) Guthrie’s son James Guthrie, 1st Baron Guthrie of Craigie, reveals a genetic match to the rest of GFG1A participants, including a direct male line descendant of Patrick Guthrie and Agnes Foord, which significantly increases the odds that their son is our man. However, there is currently no Y-DNA representative for two other Patrick Guthrie lineages in Rescobie. See Reading and Research section for further discussion and links.

Patrick’s occupation is unknown, but was most likely in the mercantile business like so many of his other relatives.

On 3 June 1726 Patrick Guthrie in the Parish of St Vigeans & Agnes Foord in this parish gave up their names for proclaiming: were proclaimed here three several Sundays & married at St Vigeans. They had 5 children listed in the OPR birth and baptismal records for St Vigeans. According to the residences listed in those records, the family were living at Auchmithie, Strigoary, and Coaltown of Auchmithie, a study of which may assist in the confirmation of Patrick’s parents.

Patrick and Agnes’ death dates are unknown. There is one reference to Patrick Guthrie Sr witnessing the baptism of his grandson David (note the name) in Arbirlot on 31 Dec 1762, so he was still around at that time.

AGNES FOORD
Parents: Unverified. See notes.
Birth: 10 March 1708, possibly. Likely 1696-1711 if 15-30 at the time of her marriage. See notes.
Birth Location: Lundie and Fowlis, Angus, Scotland, possibly. See Notes.
Guthrie Children: Jannet (1729), Patrick (1731), Barbara (1734), Anna (1736), James (1739)
Death: Aft. 1739
Death Location: Unknown, presumably in Angus, Scotland
Burial Location: Unknown, presumably in Angus, Scotland
Notes:
There is only 1 Agnes Foord OPR birth/baptism in Angus for 1690-1710, and she was the daughter of Alexander Foord and Isobel Bell in Lundie and Fowlis on 10 Mar 1708. She would have been 18 at her marriage to Patrick Guthrie.

CHILDREN: 5
Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Autosomal DNA Participants: Yes

JANNET GUTHRIE
1729SCT – ????

Jannet, daughter to Patrick Guthery and Agnes Foord in Auchmithie was baptized. (St Vigeans Parish)

There are 6 OPR marriages recorded for Angus bet. 1745-1775, but none of those records provide any clues as to the bride’s parentage.

Y-DNA Project Participants: N/A – Female Guthrie
Autosomal DNA Participants: No

PATRICK GUTHRIE (Farmer in Acres of Crudie)
1731SCT – Aft. 1779SCT

Patrick, son to Patrick Guthrie and Agnas Foord in ye parish of Stigoary(?). The baptism was recorded in Arbroath.

On 8 May 1756, recorded in Arbirlot, Angus, Scotland: Were contracted Patrick Guthrie and Margaret Smith both in this parish and after regular proclamation were married.This couple initially lived in Cottown (a hamlet of cottages) of Balcathie, which is a farming area south east of Arbirlot. They later farmed in the area of Acres of Crudie aka Crudie Acres. The couple had 7 children.

The last record known to belong to this Patrick Guthrie is the baptismal record of his youngest son, John Guthrie, born in 1779. There is only 1 OPR death/burial record for a Patrick Guthrie in Angus bet. 1725-1830 and that is for a Patrick Guthrie in Dundee dated 26 Feb 1797, which is probably not the right record for this man.

CHILDREN: 7
1) Patrick ‘Peter’ Guthrie 1757-Aft.1801 (Farmer at Crudie Acres) m.1786 Elizabeth Fitchett +children
2) David Guthrie was baptized 31 Dec 1762 in Arbirlot. No further data.
3) Charlotte Guthrie was baptized 22 Dec 1765 in Arbirlot. She married John Gibson of St Vigeans Parish on 2 July 1791. +children
4) Alexander Guthrie was baptized 25 Nov 1768 in Arbirlot. No further data.
5) James Guthrie was baptized at Arbirlot on 7 Oct 1771. No further data.
6) Chaplin Guthrie was baptized in Arbirlot on 24 Nov 1775. No further data.
7) John Guthrie was baptized 3 July 1779 in Arbirlot. Two Arbirlot OPR marriage records 1808: Barbara Carey and/or 1818: Ann Mill as possibilities, the latter ruled out as a Statutory Death Record confirms the identity of Ann Mill’s husband. No further data.

Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Autosomal DNA Participants: Yes

BARBARA GUTHRIE
1734SCT – Aft. 1776SCT

Patrick Guthrie & Agnes Foord in Cottown of Auchmithie had a child baptized named Barbara on 1 March 1734 At St Vigeans Parish, Angus, Scotland.

Like many Scot marriages this one is recorded in the OPR for both the bride and groom’s home parish. On 4 Oct 1775 in Arbirlot: Were contracted John Lamb in the parish of Aberbroshock and Barbara Guthrie in this parish and for regular proclamation were married. On 19 Oct 1775 in Arbroath: John Lamb with Barbara Guthrie. John Lamb was a farmer.

CHILDREN: 8
1) John Lamb was baptized 17 Mar 1757 in Arbroath. Lived in Acres in Arbirlot. m.1781 Elizabeth Adam (from St Vigeans) +children
2) Mary Lamb was baptized 27 Mar 1761 in Barry. No further data.
3) Amelia Lamb was baptized on 28 Jun 1763 in St Vigeans. No further data.
4) Anne Lamb was baptized 11 Jul 1766 in Arbroath. Presumed dead bef. 19 Feb 1772 (See#6 Ann below.)
5) Robert Lamb was baptized 10 Oct 1768 in Arbroath. He became a wright residing in Perth where he married Jean Squire on 6 Jun 1791. She predeceased Robert who died at 91 yrs of age on 5 Feb 1860. +children
6) Ann Lamb baptized on 19 Feb 1772 in Arbroath. No further details.
7) David Lamb was baptized 18 Aug 1774 in Arbroath. Presumed dead before 16 Aug 1776 (See #8)
8) David Lamb 16 Aug 1776 in Arbirlot. No further details.

Y-DNA Project Participants: N/A – Female Guthrie
Autosomal DNA Participants: No

ANNA GUTHRIE
1736SCT – Aft.1775SCT

Patrick Guthrie and Agnes Foord in Coattoun of Auchmithie had a child baptized named Anna on 5 May 1736 at St Vigeans, Angus, Scotland.

Her marriage record reads:
Arbirlot Novr. 2d 1759. This day George Butchart, weaver in Cottertown of Peasie Hill, and Anne Guthrie, lawful daughter to Patrick Guthrie in the Acres of Crudie gave up their names for proclamation in order to marriage; were regularly proclaimed, Novr. 4, 11, & 18th, and married. George was a farm servant. They lived in Arbirlot where they raised their children.

CHILDREN: 6
1) Barbara Butchart – bapt. 13 Jun 1760 in Arbirlot. No further details.
2) Marion Butchart – bap. 15 Apr 1764 in Arbirlot. No further details.
3) Charles Butchart – (twin) – bapt. 4 Jan 1768 in Arbirlot. Presumed dead bef. 1775. (See #6)
4) Agnes Butchart – (twin) – bapt. 4 Jan 1768 in Arbirlot. See 1841 census of Dundee for possible match.
5) Isabel Butchart – bapt. 19 Dec 1773 in Arbirlot. Her marriage to Robert Doig (mariner/pilot/ship owner) was recorded 26 Aug 1798 in Arbroath and in Arbirlot. He died in 1846. Isabel died 16 July 1864 in Arbroath at 93 years of age. +children
6) Charles Butchart – bapt. 30 Jun 1775 in Arbirlot. No further details.

Y-DNA Project Participants: N/A – Female Guthrie
Autosomal DNA Participants: No

JAMES GUTHRIE (Shipmaster)
1739SCT – ????

On 20 May 1739 at Saint Vigeans, Patrick Guthrie & Agnes Foord in Coattoun of Aucthmithie had a child baptized named James.

He was contracted to marry Margaret Johnston (or Johnstone) on 29 Nov 1783 in Panmure, Angus, Scotland. On 13 Dec 1783 the St Vigeans Parish Register noted James Guthery & Margt. Johnston in Panbride were married. James was a sailor and shipmaster. They had 7 children baptized at St Vigeans and Arbroath.

CHILDREN: 7
1) James Guthrie – born 26 / bapt 29 Sep 1785 in Arbroath. (Merchant Seaman) m. 9 Feb 1807 Margaret Paris +children
2) Isabel Guthrie – born 14 / bapt 15 Aug 1790 in Arbroath. No further details.
3) John Guthrie – born 22 / bapt. 25 Jan 1792 in Arbroath. No further details.
4) Margaret Guthrie – born 18 / bapt. 31 Dec 1794 in Arbroath. m. David Moir (merchant seaman) 13 Feb 1814 +children
5) Alexander Guthrie – born 21 / Bapt 23 Jun 1797 in Arbroath. No further details.
6) Mary Guthrie – born 16/ bapt. 19 Oct 1798 in Arbroath. No further details.
7) Patrick Guthrie – born 20 / bapt. 23 Jun 1801 in Arbroath. No further details.

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Autosomal DNA Participants: No

READING and RESOURCES

Notes and Discussion:
There are 3 OPR baptismal records for a Patrick Guthrie born in Angus bet. 1680 – 1710:
Candidate #1) Patrick Guthrie 4 Sep 1689 in Rescobie – Parents: David Guthrie/Helen CampbellThis day Mr David Guthrie of Carsbank and his wife Helen Campbell had a child bapt: Patrick.
Candidate #2) Patrick Guthrie (Twin of James) 29 Aug 1700 in Rescobie – Parent: Thomas Guthrie Thomas Guthrie in Doghillhok twins bap: James & Patrick.
Candidate #3) Patrick Guthrie 5 Oct 1704 in Dundee – Parents: James Guthrie (merchant) and Christian Scott – His godfathers are Pat: Barclay of __, mariner, Pat: Scott, mariner, uncle, Pat: Balnavos, merchant, Pat: ___ merchant in Rotterdam ___ ___.

The key locations in Angus, Scotland concerning this family:
1) Rescobie Parish is just east of Forfar to the north of the map above.
2) Dundee – Craigie is just east of Dundee, which we know to be home to James Guthrie & wife Christian Scott.
2) St Vigeans is just north of Arbroath and just west of Auchmithie
3) Cottoun of Auchmithie is at Auchmithie

The question is whether the Patrick Guthrie who married Agnes Foord is indeed the son of James Guthrie and Christian Scott. Since the Patrick was living in St Vigeans Parish at the time of his marriage to Agnes, there is no direct association between his residence/s and those of Guthrie & Scott in Craigie and/or Dundee.

Since Patrick Guthrie was in St Vigeans, what other Guthrie couples were living there around the same time?
1) James Guthrie father of James Guthrie (1670) – No specific location – Wit: James Fraser, James Octerlony
2) Da. Guthrie (presumably David Guthrie) father to Jean (1672), Elizabeth (1675), Anna (1677), Margaret (1679)
Jean: location: was___ seaton
Eliz.: David Guthrie of Seatoun with wit: lairds of Bonytoun and pit__
Anna: of woofer seatoun with Cairntoun wit.
Marg. – no details
3) James Guthrie father to Elizabeth (1685), David (1685), David (1687)
Elizabeth – no location
David 1685 “James Guthrie in Arbroath had a son begotten in fornication called David. Wit: David Bray, Alexr. Gray wit. (This could be a different James Guthrie)
David 1687 – no location – wit: Wm Ruthie, David Lamb
4) John Guthrie father to James (1688) – no location given – James Fraser and David Guthry witnesses
5) Thomas Guthrie/Janet Doig parents to Alexander & William (1729)
“Wm & Alexr. sons to Thomas Guthery and Jannet Doig in Acres was baptized.” This couple, married in 1715 Arbroath, had several children in Arbirlot prior to the birth of their twins in Acres, baptized at St Vigeans.
Acres presumably is Crudie Acres, which is where Patrick & Margaret (Smith) Guthrie moved to by 1762. However, there are over 30 years between those times of residence.

Some data will be posted here, but I don’t think there is anything substantial to alter the choice of Patrick Guthrie’s parents at this time. Y-DNA testing does support the inferred placement unless other evidence turns up.

St. Vigeans Church is a Church of Scotland serving the parish of the ancient village of St Vigeans on the outskirts of Arbroath, Angus, Scotland.
Auchmithie is a small fishing village three miles north east of Arbroath.

CARSBANK – COAT OF ARMS – David Guthrie of Carsbank bears two coats quarterly first argent a cross able. Second azur three garbs Or. Third as the second the fourth as the first all within a border ~ or ira___ girls Above the shield one helmet befitting his degree imantled gules double argent the motto in one Escroll: Pietas et frugalitas (Piety and Thrift). Digital Repository: Scotlands People – Legal Records/Coats of Arms.

Wills and Testaments:
David Guthrie – 6 Nov 1736 – lawful son to umquhile Mr David Guthrie of Carsbank
Isobell Guthrie – 16 Dec 1754 – lawful daughter of deceased Mr David Guthrie of Carsbank, parish of Forfar (b. 6 Dec 1727)
James Guthrie – 12 Dec 1754 – lawful son to the deceased Mr David G., of Carsbank
Digital Repository: Scotlands People – Legal Records/Wills and Testaments

The David Guthrie of Carsbank listed as the father of Patrick Guthrie (candidate #1) was also the son of a David Guthrie of Carsbank. One of them died on 6 June 1716 listed as David Guthrie of Carsbanick.

Website: The Anglo-Scottish Migration Project
Guthrie, Patrick
Dates: 1741
Location: London
Vocation: Lawyer
Place of Birth: Angus
Marriage: (Blank)
Issue: (Blank)
Entry: Son of David Guthrie of Carsbank, Angus. Entered in Gray’s Inn, 28 July 1741.
Source: J. Foster (ed.), The Register of Admissions to Gray’s Inn, 1521-1889 (London, 1889), 375.
[Note: If this is Patrick s/o David and Helen, born in 1689, he would be about 52 years of age, which seems probable.]

Website: St Vigeans (Angus): Records, Sources & Information about the Parish of St Vigeans

Dictionary/Word Usage: Cot-noun, n. also: cotton, -town(e, cot(t)one. A hamlet of cottages.
Digital Repository: Dictionaries of the Scots Language – A Dictionary of the Older Scottish Tongue (up to 1700)

Statutory Death Records:
Digital Repository: Scotlands People
Robert Lamb
Lamb, Robert, joiner (journeyman) (widower), 1860 February Fifth, 10 H PM, 14 Gowrie Street, Bridgend, Perth, (Kinsall), M, 91 years, Parents: John Lamb, Farmer (deceased), Barbara Lamb maiden name Guthrie (deceased), COD: Old Age, no medical attendant, Burial Place: Greyfriars Cemetery, Perth, as certified by John Farquharson, superintendent, Informant: Robert Lamb, 10 Park Street, Lunehouse, London, son, Registered: 1860 February 9th at Perth, Robert B___ assistant registrar RB

Isabella Doig
Isabella Doig, widow of Robert Doig, ship owner, Died 1864 July Sixteenth, 9h 20m AM at 5 Old Shorehead Arbroath Parish, F, 93 yrs, Parents: George Butchart, farm servant, (deceased), Ann Butchart m.s. Guthrie (deceased), COD: Age & Infirmity, no medical attendant, Informant: David Doig, son, seaman, ______, present, Registered: 1864 July Twenty-Third at Arbroath, Alex. Webster, Registrar.