Group Change
Amherst/Augusta County, Virginia lineage belongs to Guthrie Family Group 1A instead of its originally documented home in GFG2A – Branch H.
This is a great example of why it is important to communicate the details of your lineage with the admins of your DNA Projects. Part of our role is to try to verify the existing / accepted lineage so that we’re not comparing apples to oranges when your DNA results come in. Every now and then a discovery changes everything we know about your origins.
Some of you need to tweak your family trees. Affected project members are Kits 259168, 382946, and B7010.
One of our favorite resources for Guthrie origins is ‘American Guthrie and Allied Families‘ by Laurence R. Guthrie. It is chock full of family history for so many lineages containing both oral traditions and documented evidence. There are also some understandable errors where the families contributing to the work or the author have made assumptions of relatedness based on a person of the Guthrie surname living in the same local area. That seems to be the case for the ancestors of Participant 259168.
The paper trail led to a fork in the road. One path took us to a region full of GFG2A descendants. The other named a different set of parents living in the same area.
Our YDNA participant’s ancestor George Wyatt Guthrie 1826VA-1896VA of Augusta County, Virginia is documented in ‘American Guthrie’ as a son of Haley Guthrie & Fanny Allen, a line genetically matched to GFG2A. The region in Augusta County is a common locale for that group, yet George’s death certificate lists his parents as John William Guthrie and Elizabeth White. That couple’s marriage also took place in Augusta County, Virginia in 1824, so it seems understandable that even if there was an identity mix up that the Family Group would probably be the same. Right?
Wrong.
Y-DNA results revealed a definitive match to Guthrie Family Group 1A, being identical to members belonging to GFG1A – Branch B: Descendants of John Guthrie & Elizabeth Baskett of Middlesex County, VA.
That required a closer look at the records for John William Guthrie. The census of Augusta County 1820 includes 3 men named John Guthrie, two in Waynesboro, and one in Staunton. The Waynesboro men are labelled Senior and Junior, and their family profiles fit men from GFG2A – Branch H. It is the third man whom I believe is John William Guthrie. Ancestry’s transcription includes an error. It appears that the census taker made an attempt at labeling all three men. In this case, he added a profession: teacher, so that the original entry is listed as John Guthrie (Teacher). Ancestry has transcribed it as John Guthier Thatcher.
John Guthrie (Teacher) was a single male of 16-25 years old in 1820, and so was born 1795-1804. Based on the ages of the other people named John Guthrie living in the area at the time, he is also the best candidate to be the spouse of Elizabeth White.
The generation of John William Guthrie’s parents still requires additional YDNA matching for confirmation, but descendants of this line show a repetition of family names. The standout is the name Wingfield, which shows up in several generations.
This leads me to believe that John William Guthrie’s parents were William Guthrie and Elizabeth Wingfield of Amherst County, Virginia. They were the parents of 14 children. The eldest 4 remain unidentified. William Guthrie was a farmer, a slave owner, and owned a line of boats on the James River that carried freight from Lynchburg to Richmond. He married Elizabeth Wingfield on 26 Jan 1797 in Amherst County, Virginia.
In addition to our YDNA Participant, there are two members with Family Finder / Autosomal DNA Kits who descend from John William Guthrie & Elizabeth White via their daughter Emily. They also have an autosomal match with Participant 259168, which reinforces the ancestral line.
William Guthrie & Elizabeth Wingfield are now included in Guthrie Family Group 1A as Branch G. If you are a descendant of this line consider adding your YDNA (if you are a male Guthrie) or Autosomal DNA to the project.
The next task for those of you in GFG1A is to determine where William Guthrie fits in the group picture. Read, review, and contribute to the collected data on this family. Go to GFG1A – Branch G.
Guthrie Genealogy 
Does this change my group from Maryland to NC to Augusta Virginia? Paula
Sent from my iPhone
>
LikeLike
The only members this affects directly are those belonging to Kits 259168, 382946 and B7010. If that’s not you, add your Kit Number or your lineage and I will take a look.
LikeLike
Hi Ann,
Since you have said some of us need to tweak our family trees, I thought I would give you an update on my tree possibilities.
As you know, my great grandmother is Millie Guthrie Royce. Millie is my mom’s father’s mother.Millie’s father was William Guthrie.That all is unchanged. I see we have Sarah Doty listed as her mother, but that may not be the case.
Millie Guthrie was adopted by the Gage family for a while in the 1870s. Gage’s had a neighbor James Guthrie…not sure if James was related to our William Guthrie or not.
Franklin Gage was a preacher in upper Michigan Rev Franklin Gage (1815-1886) – Find A Grave…
| | | | | |
|
| | | | Rev Franklin Gage (1815-1886) – Find A Grave…
Born in 1815 and died in 1886 Colon, Michigan Rev Franklin Gage |
|
|
His wife was Mary Cleavland Gage, maiden name Dimmick.
Mary C. Gage (1816-1881) – Find A Grave Memorial
| | | | | |
|
| | | | Mary C. Gage (1816-1881) – Find A Grave Memorial
Born in 1816 and died in 1881 Colon, Michigan Mary C. Gage |
|
|
Somewhere I have a picture of my mom and one of her brothers with this gravestone.
Here is where it gets complicated.
Mary Gage had a sister Sarah Maria Dimmick who married a Henry Adams and they had a couple sons.At one time Sarah Adams stayed with the Gage family and it is assumed her husband Henry Adams had passed away. One of Sarah Adams sons was old enough so he kept the Adams surname, while the other son was adopted by the Gage family. Both the adoptions of Seth Dimmick Adams Gage and Millie Guthrie were done by the Michigan legislature at different times. Sarah M. Guthrie who married William Guthrie was then assumed to be possibly maiden named Sarah M. Dimmick and not the Sarah Doty who also married another William Guthrie that at one time resided in Michigan as well.
Millie goes to live with Gages for sure by 1870, while Sarah and William Guthrie and their son William Fredrick Guthrie have gone elsewhere but it is not clear where. Eventually Sarah Guthrie is listed living with the Gage family in the 1880 census. Both Sarah Adams and Sarah Guthrie where listed as the sister in law in the censuses. No clue when William Guthrie her husband passed away.
All census data lists Sarah’s husband William Guthrie as born in Vermont with his father born in Scotland. Not sure if William lived some time in Northern Ireland or his father lived there at one time, but Millie always said they were 100 percent Scots Irish…
Eventually Millie Guthrie/Gage marries Charles Earl Royce. Eventually Sarah M. Guthrie moves down to Arkansas to live with her son William Fredrick Guthrie and his wife Allie Boyd Guthrie. Allie and Sarah are buried in Arkansas. Sarah M Guthrie (1821-1904) – Find A Grave…
| | | | | |
|
| | | | Sarah M Guthrie (1821-1904) – Find A Grave…
Born in 12 May 1821 and died in 13 Aug 1904 Siloam Springs, Arkansas Sarah M Guthrie |
|
|
At one time one of Millie Royce’s daughters = Mattie Royce goes to live with her uncle William Fredrick Guthrie for a while in Arkansas. William Fredrick Guthrie and Allie Boyd had six children. Children were: Millie Guthrie, Margaret Guthrie, William Arthur Guthrie, Joseph Cannon Guthrie, and sons Michael Guthrie and Sandy Guthrie. William Arthur Guthrie and Joseph Cannon Guthrie both died together due to drowning.
At one time William Fredrick Guthrie and Allie and child Margaret and Mattie Royce go to San Diego and start a restaurant. Margaret stays in California.
William Fredrick Guthrie may have died on the way back to Arkansas. Do not know where he died or where he is buried.
Allie and the two boys who drowned are buried in Arkansas in the same cemetery as Sarah M. Guthrie.
Allie F. Guthrie (1860-1944) – Find A Grave…
| | | | | |
|
| | | | Allie F. Guthrie (1860-1944) – Find A Grave…
Born in 1860 and died in 1944 Siloam Springs, Arkansas Allie F. Guthrie |
|
|
Not sure where sons Michael Guthrie and Sandy Guthrie are buried or if they had children. If they did have sons, maybe there are Y-DNA descendants of this Guthrie line. We do not know what happened to them. Also do not know what happened to Allie and William Fredrick Guthrie’s daughter Millie. This Millie Guthrie was named after Millie Guthrie Royce. At one time it looks like in the census that Allie and William Fredrick Guthrie may have adopted Mattie Royce since the census lists her as a Guthrie once which could have been the case or a clerk error. Mattie Royce eventually moves back with a uncle on the Royce side and then retakes the Royce name. This appears to have happened after William Fredrick Guthrie passed away…
Not sure if Sandy and Michael are biological kids either. Further investigation needs to be done.
We do not know if my great great grandpa William Guthrie stayed in the USA after he was born in Vermont or if his family return overseas to raise him there and then he came back to the USA as already a citizen at a later date.
So that’s it for now. I don’t know how to go further with this, but maybe you have access to records I do not…
Blessings. Jeannie Quall.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Hi Ann,
I finally got Millie Guthrie’s brother’s death record located.
William Fredrick Guthrie died in San Antonio, Bexar county, Texas on January 3, 1932.Date of birth may be off a bit…
His daughter Millie Guthrie signed as informant. It lists Allie Guthrie as his wife. The certificate does not list his father’s name or birthplace.For mother’s maiden name it lists Sarah Gage born in New York. That is probably not Sarah’s real maiden name, but a mistake on Millie’s part.I think Millie had no idea what her grandmother’s maiden name was… William Fredrick Guthrie was buried at Roselawn burial park… Maybe an obit can be found that might have more info… especially info about Sandy or Michael would be great.
Still looking for more info on my great great grandfather William Guthrie, but at least we have the son’s death record located.. Every piece of the puzzle is important..
Jeannie Quall
LikeLike
Ann,
Did you get this e-mail? I wanted to make sure you saw it.
Blessings. Jeannie Quall.
—– Forwarded Message —– From: Quall Jeannie To: Guthrie Genealogy Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2019, 1:33:19 AM CDTSubject: Re: [New post] Group Change, Millie Guthrie’s brother’s death record. Hi Ann,
I finally got Millie Guthrie’s brother’s death record located.
William Fredrick Guthrie died in San Antonio, Bexar county, Texas on January 3, 1932.Date of birth may be off a bit…
His daughter Millie Guthrie signed as informant. It lists Allie Guthrie as his wife. The certificate does not list his father’s name or birthplace.For mother’s maiden name it lists Sarah Gage born in New York. That is probably not Sarah’s real maiden name, but a mistake on Millie’s part.I think Millie had no idea what her grandmother’s maiden name was… William Fredrick Guthrie was buried at Roselawn burial park… Maybe an obit can be found that might have more info… especially info about Sandy or Michael would be great.
Still looking for more info on my great great grandfather William Guthrie, but at least we have the son’s death record located.. Every piece of the puzzle is important..
Jeannie Quall
LikeLike
Yes, I got the email. I looked for obits in the San Antonio Light and San Antonio Express News, but did not find any.
LikeLike