John Guthrie & Margaret Brown

The Family Focus is on . . .

JOHN GUTHRIE & MARGARET BROWN
~ Pennsylvania ~

There’s a tangled up knot in this branch of the Guthrie Family Tree. Time to sort it out with a few facts and figures and maybe shake a few clues loose in the process. John Guthrie, the son of Robert Guthrie and a Miss Darlington, married Margaret Brown, and the couple had 3 children: Mary Guthrie, William Brown Guthrie, and Robert Guthrie. Simple, right? Not so much.



Origin Theories:

My post on Robert, John, & James: Ironmongers of Edinburgh revealed some of the genealogical challenges of Guthrie Family Group 2A’s Branches B, F, and I in correctly identifying family members and generations on their part of the group’s tree. This FAMILY FOCUS will examine Robert’s line of descent through his designated son, John Guthrie, and compare it with another GFG2A lineage that may be incorrectly attached.

Laurence R Guthrie hypothesized that Robert Guthrie and wife, reportedly a Miss Darlington, had 4 sons: Adam, William, James, and John Guthrie. He based his theory upon a series of documents that appeared to link the men by common residences.

John Guthrie is supposed to have been born or raised in Chester County, Pennsylvania. He has been attached by author LRG to Cumberland County, Franklin County, and Bedford County. It is believed that John Guthrie was a soldier during the Revolutionary War. Several notations in the appendix of ‘American Guthrie’ reveal that association is to a Bedford County man.

It is further stated that John Guthrie married a woman named Margaret whose maiden name was probably Brown, presumably because they had a son named William Brown Guthrie.

Not so far away, the family of Robert Guthrie and Bridget Dougherty, who had come from Northern Ireland between 1740-1745 moved to Carlisle, Cumberland County. They had 6 children: Robert (1737), James (1739), Jane (1741), John (1749), George (1750), and Margaret (1753). There are questions aplenty about son James’ death date, whom he married if anyone, and if he had any children.

LRG posits that James may have married a Margaret Brown, the daughter of Robert Brown. He also puts forth that they may be the parents of a Robert D Guthrie who was reportedly born in Chester County and died in Carlisle, Cumberland County.

Hmm, Margaret Brown. Where have we heard that name before? Thinking. Were there two women of the same name who married cousins, or is this a case of Mixed Up Margarets?



Mistaken Identities:

Oh, what a tangled tree we grow. There are several instances of mistaken identity happening here. I’ll cover them briefly here and provide more details below.

  1. Margaret Brown, daughter of Robert Brown, married John Guthrie, not James Guthrie.
  2. Robert D Guthrie is listed in some places as Robert Darlington Guthrie. The Darlington name is linked to Branch B, not Branch E.
  3. John Guthrie does not appear to have lived in Bedford County, and is probably not the Rev. War Soldier who served from that county.
  4. Robert D Guthrie is probably the son of John Guthrie & Margaret Brown and not James Guthrie & Margaret Brown.


The Family of John Guthrie & Margaret Brown:

JOHN GUTHRIE
Parents: Robert Guthrie & Miss Darlington / Unconfirmed & No Y-DNA
Born: 1724-1743
Location: Pennsylvania, presumably
Occupation: Unidentified, possibly a soldier
Married: Margaret Brown on 5 Nov 1764 in Lancaster, PA
Died: 1800 – 1810
Location: Franklin County, Pennsylvania, USA (presumably)
Buried: Unknown


MARGARET BROWN
Parents: Robert Brown & Martha Calder
Born: Abt. 1747 / Unconfirmed
Location: Tredyffin, Chester, Pennsylvania / Unconfirmed
Children: Robert D Guthrie (1765), Mary Guthrie (1769), William Brown Guthrie (1772)
Died: 3 March 1777
Location: Perry County, Pennsylvania, USA
Buried: Unknown, presumably in Perry County, Pennsylvania, USA


CHILDREN:

ROBERT D GUTHRIE
1754 PA – 1840 PA

Robert D Guthrie’s name is generally found in documents as R D Guthrie or Robert D Guthrie. I have yet to find an original document that lists him as Robert Darlington Guthrie, although the use of the Darlington middle name is frequently found in unsourced locations.

His obituary claims that Robert D Guthrie was born in Chester County, PA, and that he moved to Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA in his youth. He was “for the last 68 years (a) resident of this borough.” Robert was a silversmith and owned a stone house and lot in North Hanover Street, Carlisle. His business, R.D. Guthrie & Son, included Clock and Watchmaking. Robert also served for a time as a Justice of the Peace for Cumberland County.

Robert was married, but the identity of his wife remains unknown. They had 3 daughters one of which was named Maria (1801) and 4 sons, three of whom are known: John (1794), Robert R (1800), and James L (1807).

His wife died on 28 January 1832 in Carlisle. Robert was living with his son James Guthrie and family in Carlisle during the 1840 census. He died a few months later on 25 November 1840 at the age of 75, “a good citizen, an honest man, and a steadfast friend.”


MARY GUTHRIE
c1769 PA – p1810 PA

There is a minor question about this daughter’s given name. LRG lists her as Mary Guthrie and notes that she is supposed to have married a Marshall.

The notation of her baptism on 9 August 1769 in the diary of Reverend John Cuthbertson lists her as “Mary, daughter to John Guthrie.”

The last will and testament of her uncle, Roger Brown, written in 1810, names her as “Margaret Guthrie alias now Margaret Marshall.” Perhaps he was thinking of his sister Margaret when that name was written or dictated. Maybe her name was actually Mary Margaret. Just speculation on that one.

There is also a Mary Marshall listed as a Head of Household in the Juniata, Cumberland, Pennsylvania census of 1810.


WILLIAM BROWN GUTHRIE
1772 PA – 1822 PA

Family tradition tells us that sometime after his mother’s death in 1777, William Brown Guthrie was sent to his older brother Robert to learn the trade. He too became a silversmith, clock and watchmaker. By the time he was 21 years old, William had settled in Mercersburg, Franklin, PA. He also joined the local militia, a volunteer company called ‘The Franklin Blues’ and served as captain.

William B Guthrie married on 22 April 1800 to Isabella Sterrett, a daughter of Cairns & Mary (Mayes) Sterrett. The ceremony took place in Mercersburg. The couple had 7 children: Maria (1801), William Sterrett (1803), Otho Darlington (1805), Sarah Maria (1808), John Mitchell (1811), Newton Brown (1813), and Margaret (1816).

On 22 Jan 1813, William B Guthrie was appointed as the Mercersburg Postmaster, a position he held until his death on 22 January 1822. His wife Isabella survived him by 5 years. She died on 24 November 1827.



Timeline of Family Events & Historical Highlights:

CUMBERLAND COUNTY INCLUDED LOTS of TERRITORY in SOUTHERN PENNSYLVANIA

1732: Robert Guthrie – Landholder – Fallowfield, Chester County
Robert Guthrie (The Immigrant Ironmonger of Edinburgh) is listed on the Fallowfield Township, Chester County Tax List as a landholder. Like many landowners, he had indentured servants. A complaint was issued against him on 29 Aug 1732 for poor conditions and a broken contract when the plaintiff’s Freedom Dues weren’t paid accordingly.

1734: Robert Guthrie – Landholder – Chester County
Robert Guthrie – 200 Acres Surveyed – 18 Nov 1734 – No township specified
(PAA Series 3, Vol 24, Part II, page 75)

1734/35: Robert Guthrie – Landholder – Nantmeal, Chester County
Robert Guthrie is listed on the Nantmeal Tax list as a landholder. Both Fallowfield and Nantmeal are found along the western border with Lancaster County. This is the last entry where Robert Guthrie is listed.

Before 1743: Birth of John Guthrie
Nantmeal Township, Chester County, Pennsylvania (Presumably)
There is no document known to exist that identifies John Guthrie’s parents. ‘American Guthrie and Allied Families’ author LRG hypothesized that John was one of 4 men he identified as possible sons of Robert Guthrie, whose wife was supposed to be a Darlington. The others were Adam, James, and William.

About 1747: Birth of Margaret Brown
Tredyffin, Chester, Pennsylvania (Unconfirmed)
Margaret was the daughter of Robert Brown and Martha Calder. A bio pm Robert Brown describes the family. Children: Martha (married David Mitchell), Roger, John, Matthew, Mary (married an unidentified Hately), Elizabeth (married an unidentified Boggs), Margaret (married J. Guthrie and was grandmother of the late Robert Guthrie of Bloomfield), Grave (married Henry Bull). Robert Brown had 2 sisters who came from England with him. One married Meredith DARLINGTON and was the mother of the Darlington family in this county. The other married Francis McCown.

Source: Hungerford, A. N., Ellis, F. (1886). History of that part of the Susquehanna and Juniata Valleys: embraced in the counties of Mifflin, Juniata, Perry, Union and Snyder, in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Philadelphia: Everts, Peck & Richards.

1754: Adam Guthrie – Freeman – West Nantmeal, Chester County
Adam Guthrie, one of the designated sons, of Robert Guthrie and Miss Darlington, appears on the tax list. This is 20 years after Robert Guthrie’s last appearance in the records. Adam continues to be listed in the County Tax Records for West Nantmeal until 1768 when he is listed in East Caln.

1764: Marriage of John Guthrie & Margaret Brown
5 November 1764 – Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
The marriage of John Guthrie to Margaret Brown took place at St. James Episcopal Church in Lancaster.
Needed: Copy of original marriage record.

1764: John Guthrie – Freeman – West Nantmeal, Chester County
This is John’s first appearance in the Chester County records. Presumably, he has now reached the age of majority, and is being taxed as a landholder. This indicated that John was probably born no later than 1743.

1765: Birth of Robert D Guthrie
13 November 1765 – Chester County, Pennsylvania
Based on the year, it appears that the most likely location for Robert’s birth would be in West Nantmeal. In a biographical sketch of his grandfather, Robert Brown, it is mentioned that Robert’s daughter Margaret Brown was married to J. Guthrie, and that she was the grandmother of Robert R Guthrie of Bloomfield. The latter is Robert D Guthrie’s son. This is another source referencing the relationship between Robert D Guthrie and his mother Margaret Brown even though it technically does not name him.

Source: Hungerford, A. N., Ellis, F. (1886). History of that part of the Susquehanna and Juniata Valleys: embraced in the counties of Mifflin, Juniata, Perry, Union and Snyder, in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Philadelphia: Everts, Peck & Richards.

1768: John Guthrie – Inmate – West Nantmeal, Chester County
PAA Series 3, Vol. 11, p. 485. This is a tax list. An inmate refers to a person who lives in someone else’s house, but not typically a member of the family. A lodger is an example of an inmate. The term is also applied to heads of families occupying cottages on lands of other landowners. Although John appears to have owned some property 4 years earlier, he may have sold it as his status was downgraded to inmate.

1769: John Guthrie – Inmate – West Nantmeal, Chester County
PAA Series 3, Vol. 11, p.610. Another tax list with John in the same status as an inmate. This is John Guthrie’s last appearance in the Chester County records.

1769: Mary Guthrie – Baptism
9 August 1769 – Cumberland County, Pennsylvania
Reverend John Cuthbertson was the first missionary of the Reformed Presbyterian Church to come to America from Ulster. Between 1751-1790, he travelled between Pennsylvania and New Hampshire. His diary reveals:

Rode 8 miles James Anderson’s; preached psalm 46:8 preached Titus 3:5 and baptized John, Sarah, James, Eleanor, Alexander and Martha to Thomas Dougherty and Mary to John Guthrie.

Register of Marriages and Baptisms Performed by Rev. John Cuthbertson, 1751-1791
by S. Helen Fields, Heritage Books, 2007

It is important to note that Rev John Cuthbertson was a Covenanter. The extended Guthrie family and their many branches are frequently noted to be associated with the Covenanters.

1771: John Guthrie – Witness to the Will of Thomas Barnett
17 October 1771 – Hamilton, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania
Hamilton Township is now found in Franklin County, PA, which used to be part of Cumberland County. Back Creek, a tributary of the Conococheague forms the southern boundary. This location is important because it is another gathering spot for the men LRG has designated as the sons of the hypothetical family of Robert Guthrie & Miss Darlington. James Guthrie (who turns out to be a Branch G cousin) also lived in Hamilton. William Guthrie married Elizabeth Barnett, daughter to Thomas Barnett. John Guthrie signed as a witness to Barnett’s will.

1772: Robert D. Guthrie – Apprenticeship in Carlisle
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania
According to his obituary, Robert lived in Carlisle for 68 years, which means that he arrived there when he was a boy of about 7 years of age. The family believes that Robert was brought to Carlisle in order to apprentice in trade craft, which is how he developed his skills as a Clockmaker, Watchmaker, and Silversmith.

1772: Birth of William Brown Guthrie
9 June 1772 – Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA

1777: Death of Margaret (Brown) Guthrie
Abt. 14 March 1777 – Perry County, Pennsylvania
“Received of Rodger Brown the sum of seven shillings and six pence, it being for ringing the bell for Margaret Guthrie’s funeral. I say received by me March 14, 1777. Dennis (his X mark) Sweeney.”

Source: Hungerford, A. N., Ellis, F. (1886). History of that part of the Susquehanna and Juniata Valleys: embraced in the counties of Mifflin, Juniata, Perry, Union and Snyder, in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Philadelphia: Everts, Peck & Richards.

1777: Death of Robert Brown
14 April 1777 – Cumberland (now Perry) County, Pennsylvania
Will Book C – Pages 1-2 (Abstract)
Brown, Robert, Rie (Rye Township)
7 May 1776                        14 April 1777
Wife: Martha
Youngest Daughters: Grace Brown and Martha Brown
Other 4 Children: Roger Brown, MARGARET GUTHREY, Mary Hattey, Elizabeth Boggs.
To Robert Boggs, land purchased from Francis West and Nathaniel McKeney.
Exs: wife Martha Brown and son, Mathew Brown.

After 1777: Disposition of the Children
Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA

According to Rob Greenland, a descendant of this line, the family speculates that after the death of his wife, John Guthrie depended on relatives for the care of his minor children. William Brown Guthrie is believed to have been sent to Carlisle to apprentice under his brother, Robert. This makes perfect sense as both became craftsmen working as silversmiths and clockmakers. Daughter Mary Guthrie was reportedly placed into the care of his in-laws, the Brown family. Mary is later documented in Juniata where some of the Browns were residing.

1784: Formation of Franklin County, Pennsylvania
9 September 1784
Franklin County was formed from Cumberland County.

1789: Tax and Exoneration, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania
Carlisle Rates for 1789
Freemen (include) Robert Guthrie – Rate 15

1790: John Guthrie – United States Federal Census of 1790
Franklin County, Pennsylvania, USA
Household of John Gutorey
2 Free White Males 16 and upwards including head of family
2 Free White Females including head (wife) of family

1790: Robert D Guthrie – United States Federal Census of 1790
Hopewell, Newton, Tyborn and Westpennsboro, Cumberland County, PA
[Possible Match]
Household of Robert Guthery
3 Free White Males Males 16 and over
1 Free White Female
Total Household Members: 4

1793: Septennial Census of Cumberland County, Pennsylvania
Taxables in Carlisle (include):
No. 201 Robt. Guthrie – Clockmaker
No. 202 William Guthrie – ditto

1793: Newspaper Entry – The Chambersburg Gazette
19 June 1793 – Franklin County, Pennsylvania, USA
“A copy of the Chambersburg Gazette, of June 19, 1793, contains a list of settlers in the Chambersburg Post Office. . . Mercersburg. . . William Guthrie.”

Source: History of Franklin County, Warner and Beers, Chicago, 1887., p.223.

1795: Religious Delegates
September 1795 – Franklin County, Pennsylvania, USA
A list of delegates to a conference of Reformed Presbyterian (Covenanter) Church held in Scotland, Franklin County, Pa. September, 1795. Among others: “William Guthrie” and “John Guthrie”.

1798: William B Guthrie – Military Service (Militia Captain)
3 December 1798 – Franklin County, Pennsylvania, USA
“A return of election in the militia of the County of Franklin, Monday, Dec 3, 1798. Volunteer company called “The Franklin Blues,” Captain William B. Guthrie.” (Pennsylvania Archives Series 6, Vol 4, p703).

1800: Marriage of William Brown Guthrie & Isabella Sterrett
22 April 1800 – Mercersburg, Franklin, Pennsylvania, USA
Isabella is the daughter of Cairns & Mary (Mayes) Sterrett.

1800: William B Guthrie – Property Purchase
November 1800 – Mercersburg, Franklin, Pennsylvania, USA
Michael Ford of Mercersburg, and wife Mary, for 7 pounds, 2shillings, sell to William Guthrie of Mercersburg a lot of ground in the same place.
(Franklin County, Pa Deeds Vol 5, p.90)

1800: John Guthrie – United States Federal Census of 1800
Greene, Franklin, Pennsylvania, USA
Household of John Gutherie
1M and 1F 45 and over
1M 26-44
1M and 1F 16-25
1M and 1F under 10
Total Household Members: 7

If this census record does belong to John Guthrie, it is possible that he had remarried. The male of 26-44 is neither Robert D Guthrie nor William Brown Guthrie.

1800: Septennial Census of Cumberland County, Pennsylvania
Taxables in Carlisle include:
No. 112 – Guthrie, Robert – Silversmith

1800-1810: Death of John Guthrie
Franklin County, Pennsylvania, presumably

1803: William B Guthrie – Property Purchase
13 January 1803 – Mercersburg, Franklin, Pennsylvania, USA
Samuel Shannon and wife Mary, both of Mercersburg, for $800, sell to William B. Guthrie of Mercersburg a lot in the same place.
(Franklin County, Pa Deeds Vol 6, p.7)

1807: Septennial Census of Cumberland County, Pennsylvania
Taxables in Carlisle include:
No. 138 – Robert D Guthrie, Silversmith

1810: Roger Brown Writes a Will
23 April 1810 – Juniata, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
Will Book H – Pages 180-181 (Abstract)
BROWN, ROGER, Juanita (Township)
3 Apr 1810            10 Apr 1813
Wife: MARY
Son: ROGER
Daughter: MARTHA WALLACE
Granddaughter: GRACE WALLACE
Daughter: ELEANOR
Son: FRANCIS
Son: WILLIAM, deceased
Papers of estate of JOHN GUTHRIE dec’d with FINLAW McCOWN, dec’d, to MARGARET GUTHRIE, now MARGARET MARSHALL.
Exs: son ROBERT BROWN and FRANCIS McCOWN
Wit: HENRY BULL, ROBERT BULL

Note: The will identifies John’s daughter Mary (Guthrie) Marshall as ‘Margaret’.

1810: Mary (Guthrie) Marshall – United States Federal Census of 1810
Juniata, Cumberland, Pennsylvania, USA
Since Mary Guthrie is believed to have married a man by the surname of Marshall sometime before her uncle, Roger Brown, wrote his will, it is possible that she is the Mary Marshall listed as a Head of Household in the 1810 census of Juniata.
1 Female 45 and over
1 Female 16-25
1 Male and 1 Female 10-15
1M and 1F under 10
Total Household Members: 6

1810: Robert D Guthrie – United States Federal Census of 1810
Carlisle, Cumberland, Pennsylvania, USA
Household of Robert D Guthrie
1 Male & 1 Female 26-44 (1766-1784)
1 Male & 1 Female 16-25 (1785-1794)
1 Female 10-15 (1795-1800)
3 Males under 10 (1801-1810)

1810: William B Guthrie – United States Federal Census of 1810
Mercersburg, Franklin, Pennsylvania, USA
Household of William B Guthrie
1 Male & 1 Female 26-44 (1766-1784)
1 Male 16-25 (1785-1794)
2 Males & 1 Female under 10 (1801-1810)
1 Other Free Person

1811: Robert D Guthrie – Tax List
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
Guthrie, D. Robert (no details provided)

1812: Robert D Guthrie – Committee Member
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
“The following persons be added to the Committee of Vigilance and Superintendence appointed by the Friends of Peace at Mr Jacksons tavern on the 12th of Sept inst.” (includes) Robert D Guthrie
(Carlisle Weekly Herald – 2 October 1812, Friday – page 3)

1813: William B Guthrie – Appointed Postmaster of Mercersburg
22 January 1813 – Mercersburg, Franklin, Pennsylvania, USA
William was appointed the Postmaster for Mercersburg, a position he held until his death in 1822.

1814: Septennial Census of Cumberland County, Pennsylvania
Taxables in Carlisle

1817: Robert D Guthrie – Witness
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
Witness to the Will of Jeremiah Miller, Innkeeper, Carlisle

1820: Robert D Guthrie – Tax List
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
Guthrie, D. Robert, watchmaker

1820: Robert D Guthrie – United States Federal Census of 1820
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
Household of Robert Guthrie
1 Male & 1 Female 45 and over (Born Before 1775)
3 Males & 1 Female 16-26 (1794-1804)
1 Male & 1 Female 10-16 (1804-1810)
1 Female under 10 (1811-1820)

1822: Death of William Brown Guthrie
20 January 1822 – Mercersburg, Franklin, Pennsylvania, USA

1823: Robert D Guthrie – Justice of the Peace
5 December 1823 – Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
Robert D. Guthrie and Alexander Officer to be Justices of the Peace in and for the County of Cumberland for the district numbered seven composed of the townships of Carlisle and Middleton.

Source: PAA Series 9 Volume VIII Executive Minutes of Governor Hiester, p.6022.

About 1823: Robert D Guthrie – Action as Justice of the Peace
Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
Robert D Guthrie and five others, riding out to attack another group of men involved in a duel. One protagonist, Duncan, died, and the other, Lamberton fled to VA for a short time.
Source: ???

1824: Robert D Guthrie – Witness
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
Witness to the Will of Simon Lamberton of North Middleton. Exs also from Carlisle.

1830: Robert D Guthrie – United States Federal Census of 1830
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
Household of Rob. D. Guthrie
1 Male 60-70 (1760-1770)
1 Female 40-50 (1770-1780)
1 Male 20-30 (1800-1810)
3 Females 15-20 (1810-1815)
1 Male 10-15 (1815-1820)
This is the only Guthrie household listed for Carlisle in 1830.

1835: Robert D Guthrie – Tax List
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
Guthrie, Robert D., watchmaker, 1 lot unimproved on North St.

1836: Robert D Guthrie Esq. – Advertisement
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
3 December 1836, Carlisle Weekly Herald

1837: Robert D Guthrie – Advertisement
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
29 August 1787, Carlisle Gazette

1838: R.D. Guthrie – Advertisement
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
6 February 1838, Carlisle Weekly Herald

Carlisle Weekly Herald

1839: R.D. Guthrie – Advertisement
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
8 May 1839, Carlisle Weekly Herald, page 4

1840: Robert D Guthrie – United States Federal Census of 1840
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA
Household of James Gutry:
1 Male & 2 Females 30-40 (1800-1810)
1 Male 70-80 (1760-1770)
This is the only Guthrie household listed in Carlisle. James L Guthrie is one of Robert D Guthrie’s sons.

1840: Death of Robert D Guthrie
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA

1840: Sheriff’s Sales – Notice of Seizure and Sale of Property
Carlisle, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, USA



The Guthrie DNA Project:

STATUS: Inferred Relationship. No Y-DNA Representation.

GUTHRIE FAMILY GROUP: GFG2A
GROUP DESIGNATION: GFG2A – Branch B

HAPLOGROUP: R-M269 > R-L21 > R-Z30233 > R-BY57462 (Inferred)
CONFIRMED HAPLOGROUP: No. Need Y-DNA Representative.

Y-DNA KITS:
None at this time. Need a male Guthrie who directly descends from John Guthrie and Margaret Brown with a Y37, Y67 or Y111 marker test.

FAMILY FINDER / AUTOSOMAL DNA KITS:

Kit 515833
Robert Guthrie/Miss Darlington > John Guthrie/Margaret Brown > William Brown Guthrie/Isabella Sterrett > Margaret Guthrie/John Hoge Gregg > John Newton Gregg/Elizabeth Bilson > Claude Orem Gregg/Estelle Slater (GGP)

As you can see, there is not a lot of participation from the descendants of John Guthrie & Margaret Brown for Y-DNA or Autosomal DNA tests. Not enough data for triangulation.



More Clues, Possible Red Herrings, and Other Tidbits:

BEDFORD COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA

John Guthrie had been identified by LRG as the man who was probably on the list of prisoners released by the Indians at Lower Shawneetown in 1764. (American Guthrie, p188)

He is further credited for the following entries. Bedford County is located within the large expanse of land that was once the original Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. It was set off from Cumberland as its own county on 9 March 1771.

Was this John Guthrie soldiering, buying and selling land, and paying taxes in Bedford County? If so, he apparently married another woman named Margaret (MNU). Also found within the records below is the name Daniel Guthrie. This man is believed to be Daniel Guthrie (1737PA-1826IN) of GFG7 who was a resident of Hopewell, Bedford, Pennsylvania in 1779. No known association between the two men.

Rangers of the Frontiers
No Date Specified (Presumably 1770s-1780s)
Soldiers of the Revolution – Bedford County – who Received Pay:
Guthery, Daniel, private
Gutry, John, private
(Pennsylvania Archives Series V, Volume 4, p.605)

1773 – Tax Records of Bedford County, Pennsylvania
John Guthery – Taxable Rate: 1 pound
(Pennsylvania Archives Series III, Volume 22, p.49)

1774 – Property Warrants
27 December 1774 – Bedford County, Pennsylvania
Warrantees of Land
Guthrie, John, 300 acres, 27 Dec 1774
Guthrie, John, 178 acres, 27 Dec 1774
(Pennsylvania Archives Series III, Volume 25, p.521)

1776 – Tax Records of Bedford County, Pennsylvania
Bethel Township:
Guthery, John, uncultivated land tax 5 pounds, 11 shillings, provincial tax 2 pounds, 11 shillings
(Pennsylvania Archive Series III, Volume 22, p.145)

1778 – Property Purchase
15 August 1778 – Bethel Township, Bedford County, Pennsylvania
A tract of land in said township containing 150 acres called ‘Brush Heap’

1779 – Tax Records of Bedford County, Pennsylvania
Bethel Township:
Guthrie, John, 150 acres, 2 horses, 5 cattle, 3 sheep
(Pennsylvania Archive Series III, Volume 22, p.183)

1780s – Depreciation Pay Received – Bedford County Militia
No Date Specified
Guthery, Daniel, private
Guthery, John, private
Gutry, John, private.
(Pennsylvania Archives Series V, Volume 4, p.240)

1781 – Property Sale
7 December 1781 – Bethel, Bedford County, Pennsylvania
John Guthrie of Bethel Township, Bedford County, and Margaret his wife, for 1,200 pounds continental currency, sell to John Moroney a tract of land in said township containing 150 acres called”Brush Heap,”

1783 – Military Service: Private 5th Class – 1st Battalion, Bedford Militia
28 April 1783 – Bedford County, Pennsylvania
“A Return of Capt. James McKinney’s Company of Militia, of the First Battalion of Bedford County as they stand entered in the Class Roll with respect to Duty and Delinquency of said Company. Privates of the 5th Class: John Guthrey, served personally.”


BIOS & OCCUPATIONAL TIDBITS

Gardner Digital Library – Robert D Guthrie: Clockmaker and Silversmith

Bowers Conservation – Robert D Guthrie and Family (Brief Bio)

Silversmiths and their Marks


JAMES GUTHRIE & MARGARET BROWN

Based on the data found about the Brown family, there is likely only one woman named Margaret Brown attached to GFG2A, and that is through her marriage to John Guthrie.

There is no concrete evidence that James Guthrie, son of Robert Guthrie and Bridget Dougherty, had a wife named Margaret Brown.

Robert Guthrie, a carpenter, cabinetmaker, and tavern keeper, had lived with his family in Lancaster County for several years prior to settling in Carlisle, Cumberland, Pennsylvania. His son James Guthrie is noted in court records in Carlisle in 1761 as a juryman, and in 1763 for assault charges.

According to a letter George Wilkins Guthrie (Mayor of Pittsburgh / US Ambassador to Japan) wrote to his cousin, James Guthrie died in 1763. There is no original documentation detailing his death at that date.

Since James Guthrie was originally reported to be the father of Robert D Guthrie, who was born in 1765, a death date of 1763 would be impossible if that relationship was correct.

The alternate is that Robert & Bridget’s son survived beyond 1763 and is the James Guthrie listed as a taxable in East Pennsboro, Cumberland County as a single man in 1778, and as a Freeman in 1779, 1780, 1782, and 1785. A lawsuit was brought by the state in April of 1788 in Carlisle (the county seat) in the case of Pennsylvania v. James Gutherie regarding his Tippling House (tavern).

James Guthrie is not the only man of that name who lived in Cumberland County at about the same time, but the other one of note is Branch G’s James Guthrie (c1720-p1801PA) who m. Jeanette Wilson. They lived in Hamilton Township prior to their move to Westmoreland County.

James Guthrie of East Pennsborough died in 1792. Letters of administration on his estate were granted to James Bell (or Betty) on 12 Nov 1792. (Cumberland County PA Wills, Book C, pp.1-2)

The Will Index Book 1750-1937 A-J, image 337 of 499 reads:

Name of Descedent or Ward: Guthrie, James
Residence: Not Listed, Time of Death: Not Listed
Date of Letters: Nov 12, 1792, Character of Letters: A (Administration)
Name of Executor, Administrator or Guardian: James Betty (Beatty?)
Register’s Docket Entry: Book B, Page 84
Wills: Not Listed, Inventory Filed Sept.9 1793, No.81
Account Date Filed: Sep 11, 1793 Book A No32

Dated 11 September 1793, an account by James Bell (or Betty), administrator of the estate of James Guthrie, dec’d, late of East Pennsborough Twp. in the amount of 82 pounds, 8 shillings. Amount remaining to be distributed 69 pounds, 5 shillings. (Cumberland County Pennsylvania Administration Accounts, File No. 32).

Although the administrative records shows a distribution of money, it does not indicate if it went to pay his debts, or if there were any family members to inherit.


THE DARLINGTON FAMILY & CONNECTIONS

One of the big mysteries about GFG2A – Branch B is the identity of its matriarch. Was she a member of the Darlington family, and if so, what was her name? It was LRG who commented that Robert Guthrie’s wife was ‘supposed to have been’ a Darlington, but he makes no effort to explore that possible family connection. Online trees everywhere (including mine) have theorized an identity for the mysterious Miss Darlington postulating that she must have been a daughter of Joseph Darlington from Cheshire, England who died in Chester County, Pennsylvania in 1748.

Unfortunately, the surviving correspondence of Laurence R Guthrie used to compile his book does not appear to include the details on the origins of the Darlington connection. Margaret Brown’s family also claims ties to the Darlington family. Her father, Robert Brown, is said to have traveled from England with two of his sisters. One sister reportedly married a Meredith Darlington.

Genealogy of the Darlington Family (p.516) includes a transcript of the will of William Darlington written 7 Sep 1757 naming wife Mary Darlington, sons Joseph, Robert, John, Meredith, and William. Mary and Meredith were named executors. The witnesses were: James Culbertson, Joseph Park, and Robert Brown. However, the section on Meredith Darlington (p.520) names his wife as Sarah David or Davis, the daughter of Rees and Catharine Davis.

And so the Darlington connection remains as elusive as ever.


KILLED BY LIGHTNING IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAINS

Otho Darlington Guthrie, a son of William Brown Guthrie & Isabella Sterett, was killed by lightning while in the Rocky Mountains in 1833. The following article describes the incident:

Colorado Steamboat Pilot – 6 June 1930

Resources:

  1. Discussions with Rob Greenland, a descendant of William Brown Guthrie about the family.
  2. Guthrie, Laurence Rawlin,. American Guthrie and allied families : lineal representations of the colonial Guthries of Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Maryland, Delaware, Virginia, North and South Carolina, some post-revolutionary emigrants and of some allied families. Chambersburg, Pa.: Kerr Print. Co., c1933.
  3. Pennsylvania Archives. Harrisburg, Pennsylvania: Pennsylvania State Archives.
  4. Pennsylvania, Published Archives Series, 1664–1902 [database online]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.
  5. Hungerford, A. N., Ellis, F. (1886). History of that part of the Susquehanna and Juniata Valleys: embraced in the counties of Mifflin, Juniata, Perry, Union and Snyder, in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Philadelphia: Everts, Peck & Richards.
  6. History of Franklin County, Warner and Beers, Chicago, 1887., p.223.
  7. The Carlisle Weekly Herald (Carlisle, Cumberland, Pennsylvania. Newspapers.com
  8. Cope, Gilbert, Genealogy of the Darlington Family: A Record of the Descendants of Abraham Darlington of Birmingham, Chester Co., Penna., and of Some Other Families of the Name. West Chester, Pa., Printed by the Committee for the Family, 1900. [database online] Archive.org
  9. Steamboat Pilot (Colorado) 6 June 1930. Colorado Historic Newspapers Collection. Colorado State Library.

4 Comments »

  1. Hello i own the house that previously was owned by James Guthrie. Then sheriff of westmoreland 1790? Researched from #1 platt book in Greensburg pa. But can’t find the relation in your research? Can you direct me ?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi Greg!

      James Guthrie, High Sheriff of Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania, was the son of James Guthrie (1720IRE-1801PA) & Jeanette (Wilson) Moore. This family belongs to Guthrie Family Group 2A – Branch G. James Sr had come to Pennsylvania from the Londonderry area of Northern Ireland by 1848. James lived in Mount Pleasant Township and later in Hempfield. He was twice married. First, to Jennet Culbertson, with whom he had 3 known children: Hettie, James, and Samuel. Jennet died in 1801, and James remarried on 30 Oct 1803 to Mrs Martha Scott, the widow of John Scott, Esq. James died on 14 May 1812.
      https://guthrie-genealogy.com/guthrie-family-groups/gfg2a/g-james-guthrie-jeanette-wilson/

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  2. Thanks for the reply. This will send me off for further research . I read your research on the Guthries heading to the Ohio country with a contingent of 19 with a Simon Girty? To skirmish with some Indians? I believe that was the demise of Colonel William Crawford. In Sandusky Ohio. A huge piece of Ohio history. ( should be a movie ) Any Idea if this is the same. James Guthrie?

    Liked by 1 person

    • It was John Guthrie (m1.Jane Reed, m2. Mary (Simpson) Wallace) who was brother of James Guthrie (m.Jeanette Wilson). John Guthrie was the uncle of James Guthrie, High Sheriff of Westmoreland. John had also been a Justice of the Peace in Westmoreland. Mary Simpson’s first husband, Richard Wallace, died during the Lochry Expedition.

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