17-A: John Guthrie & Helen Wyllie

John Guthrie (Farmer) c1732/33SCT – 1820SCT & Helen Wyllie
in Knowhead, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland

CONTENTS:
Origin Theories
The Family of John Guthrie & Helen Wyllie
Historical Highlights
The Guthrie DNA Project
Reading & Resources
Photos of the Menmuir Churchyard

ORIGIN THEORIES for GFG17 – BRANCH A

The most recent common ancestors for GFG17 are believed to be David Guthrie & Janet Stewart in Cookston and Balbirnie Mill. They are the probable grandparents of Branch A’s confirmed progenitors, John Guthrie & Helen Wyllie. Determining the identity of the father may require a few adjustments for those of you who have this couple in your family tree.

The first adjustment is simple enough. John Guthrie’s DOB is not in the 1720s. There are now 2 sources providing an estimation of 1732/33. The first is his direct descendant Rev. Thomas Guthrie, D.D. whose autobiography included a little information about his grandfather, John Guthrie, a farmer in Knowhead. He stated that at his death, he was 87 years of age. The Menmuir Parish Churchyard includes a number of Guthrie gravestones including one for John Guthrie, who was buried there in 1820. Although Find-a-Grave does not currently include photos of the stone, one has been been requested. An eyewitness also states that she saw the age at death listed as 87. [[UPDATE: Photos added below.]]

The adjustment in John’s DOB is important because it gives us a better time frame for a records search. Unfortunately the Old Parish Records in Angus have a few gaps in key places. The most likely candidates for John’s father are the three eldest sons of David Guthrie and Janet Stewart: John Guthrie (1682), David Guthrie (1683), and Alexander Guthrie (1687).

Note that many online trees have likely erroneously assigned sons John Guthrie and David Guthrie to marriages and families in Lundie and Fowlis. I am looking for data to prove or refute those claims. Instead, John and/or David are more likely to be the men associated with Kincraig, a farm very close to Balbirnie Mill that has also been said to be connected to this family.

Using Thomas Guthrie’s autobiography as a guide, it tells us that John Guthrie’s father’s name was David. That would mean that the best candidate is David Guthrie & Janet Stewart’s son David Guthrie (1683). However, there are no local birth/baptismal records to prove the connection. The family story about the Duke of Cumberland conscripting and then returning their horses, as written in the History of Brechin, mentions the Kincraig connection.

THE FAMILY of JOHN GUTHRIE & HELEN WYLLIE

JOHN GUTHRIE
Speculative Parents: David Guthrie (1683) in Kincraig
Speculative Grandparents: David Guthrie (c1650s) and Janet Stewart in Cookston & Menmuir
Born: Abt. 1732/33
Location: Angus, Scotland
Marriage: Helen Wyllie about 1754
Occupation: Farmer
Death: 1 October 1820
Location: Menmuir, Angus, Scotland
Buried: Menmuir Parish Churchyard

HELEN WYLLIE
Parents: David Wyllie and Isobel Leitch in Bracklaburn
Born: Abt. 6 June 1736
Location: Bracklaburn, Careston Parish, Angus, Scotland
Sister: Jean Wyllie (b.1721-Burnside in Balhall, Menmuir) spouse to Alexander Guthrie younger tenant in Ballhall.
Sons: Alexander (c1755), John (c1759), David (1761), George (1763), Thomas (1767), James (1769), Charles (1773), Robert (1775)
Daughters: Margaret (c1755), Isobel (1765), Jean (1780)
Death: 12 January 1821
Location: Menmuir, Angus, Scotland
Buried: Menmuir Parish Churchyard.

CHILDREN: 11

ALEXANDER GUTHRIE
Abt. 1755SCT – 1827SCT

Alexander Guthrie was probably born in the mid to late 1750s. Based on the order in which he is listed in the family records, he may be the eldest son.

Recorded in the records of Brechin Parish: July 29th Alex. Guthrie, Farmer in Mains of Findowrie and Mary Gray, daughter to the deceased Geo: Gray, sometime Farmer in Mains of Baronnie, were contracted in order to Marriage and having been proclaimed three several times were married 5th August.

Testaments, 1827: “Alexander Guthrie, Tenant of Findowrie and Mary Gray his spouse considering that there are no children existing of their marriage…”

Y-DNA Project Participants: N/A – No descendants
Autosomal DNA Participants: N/A – No descendants

MARGARET GUTHRIE
Abt. 1756SCT – 1839SCT

Margaret’s DOB is give in online trees as 1755 or 1756, but without source data. This could be an estimation or based on an age at death listed on her gravestone. Need the data or a photo of the marker. One researcher lists her birthdate as 24 May 1756, but also notes a lack of source data.

1776 March 8th: After due proclamation of Banns Alex. Guthrie & Mary Guthrie were married.

At the time of her father’s death, the testament documents list Margaret Guthrie as the spouse of Alexander Guthrie of Burnside. If the theorized ancestry is correct, this is a marriage of 2nd cousins descending from David Guthrie and Janet Stewart. They were parents to Margaret (1777), David (1778), Betty (1780), John (1782), Isobel (1784), Alexander (1787), James (1788), Thomas (1792), Charles (1795), Alexander (1796), and Helen (17??). Several died in their infancy.

Buried 26 Oct 1839 at Menmuir Churchyard.

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Autosomal DNA Participants: Yes

(Although Margaret Guthrie is female and therefore has no Y-DNA, her husband is a male Guthrie of the same family line, therefore Guthrie men descending from this couple should possess GFG17 Y-DNA.)

JOHN GUTHRIE
Abt. 1759SCT – 1826SCT

A record of children’s names in the Parish of Menmuir baptized by Rev. Mr George Ogilvy, minister there commencing from 3 December 1758, suggests why we might not have documented baptisms for older siblings Alexander and Margaret. They may have been baptized by a different minister and those records lost or noted elsewhere. On 13 June 1759: John Guthry in Knowhead had a son baptized named John.

John Guthrie married Jean Wyllie in Edzell, Angus, Scotland on 16 December 1786. This Jean Wyllie (1761-1829) should not to be confused with the sister of Helen Wyllie of the same name. Trees list this Jean Wyllie as the daughter of Thomas Wyllie (1728-1795) and Isobel Black (1728-1790).

John Guthrie in the parish of Menmuir & Jean Wyllie in this parish (Edzell) were contracted together in order to marriage.

They were noted to live in Balfour. The couple had 8 children baptized in the Menmuir parish records: Helen (1788), Isable (1789), Thomas (1791), James (1793), Alexander (1795), Jean (1796), John (1799), Margaret (1803).

John’s death is recorded on 27 Feb 1826 in Menmuir, Angus, Scotland with the documentation of the inventory of his personal estate. (Wills and testaments Reference SC47/40/3, Forfar Sheriff Court ) Trustees & Executors are listed as: Alexander Guthrie residing at Townhead of Brechin; William Wyllie tenant in mins of Edzell; David Guthrie merchant in Brechin, John Guthrie banker in Montrose; Alexander Scott tenant in Balconnel; and Mrs Jean Wyllie or Guthrie, widow of the said defunct.

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Autosomal DNA Participants: No

DAVID GUTHRIE
1761SCT – 1824SCT

David Guthrie was born on 9 May 1791, “the 3rd son of John Guthrie, tenant in Knowhead, Menmuir” and baptized on 9 May 1761 at the Kirk at Menmuir Parish. He married on 31 May 1782 to Clementina Cay (1764-1841), a daughter of William Cay and Elizabeth Greig. “David Guthrie came to Brechin a very young man, with no relatives in trade. By 22, he was a burgess of Brechin. He was a merchant and banker, also a baillie of Brechin, and served as provost there.

Burgess = an inhabitant of a town or borough with full rights of citizenship; a member of parliament for the town.
Baillie = a municipal officer or magistrate
Provost = a mayor of a municipality in Scotland

Three of his sons, John (a banker), David (banker/merchant), and Alexander (surgeon) are credited with founding the Townhead Distillery in Brechin in 1820, later called the North Port Distillery. The founding of this company seems a bit ironic considering their younger brother, Rev. Thomas Guthrie became such a strong supporter of the temperance movement.

David and Clementina were parents to 13 children: William (1783), John (1785), David (1786), Elizabeth (1787), Helen (1790), Alexander (1792), Jean (or Jane) (1794), James (1796), Robert (1798), Clementina (1800), Charles (1801), Thomas (1803), and Patrick (1871).

David Guthrie died on 12 March 1824 and Clementina on 18 May 1841. They are buried at Brechin Cathedral Cemetery in Brechin, Angus, Scotland.

Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Autosomal DNA Participants: Yes

GEORGE GUTHRIE
1763SCT – 1817SCT

Most likely born in January of 1763. On the 26th: “John Guthry in Knowhead had a son baptized named George.”

I cannot find much on this son. George seems to have died a few years before his father. He was alive at the time John Guthrie wrote his will, but a codicil was later attached indicating “George Guthrie, tenant of Petrundie (Pitmoodie?)” had died leaving a widow named Jean Dow. No mention of children.

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Autosomal DNA Participants: No

ISOBEL GUTHRIE
1765SCT – 1787SCT

Daughter Isobel was born in October of 1765. “John Guthry in Knowhead had a daughter baptized named Isobel” dated 25 October 1765. The transcription of the family memorial in Jervise, Epitaphs & Inscriptions, Vol II, lists “Isabel, who died in childhood, 1787.” This date would actually make Isobel 22 years of age and legally an adult. I wonder if the year was actually 1767 rather than 1787. The “childhood” notation would make much more sense if she was 2 rather than 22. The dates on stone markers can easily be misread.

Y-DNA Project Participants: N/A – No descendants
Autosomal DNA Participants: N/A – No descendants

THOMAS GUTHRIE
1767SCT – 1795SCT

Thomas Guthrie was probably born in late November or the first, second, or third of December in 1767. His baptism is recorded on 3 December 1767 as “John Guthrie in Knowhead had a son baptized named Thomas.”

Like his older brother David, he became a merchant. Thomas Guthrie lived and worked in Dundee. He was only 27 years of age at his death on 1 December 1795. [Testaments of Menmuir people from the Register of Testaments of the Commissariot of Brechin, 1576-1800]

The identity of his presumed wife is unknown. His father John Guthrie’s estate records mention a granddaughter by his son Thomas named Helen Guthrie.

Y-DNA Project Participants: N/A – only surviving descendant was female.
Autosomal DNA Participants: No

JAMES GUTHRIE
1769SCT – 1830SCT

James Guthrie was born in late October or early November of 1769. His baptism was recorded in Menmuir Parish on 6 November 1769 “John Guthrie in Knowhead had a son baptized named James.”

Like his forefathers before him, James Guthrie was a farmer. The probate documents of his father reveal that James was a “tenant at Dunlappie”. A record search at ScotlandsPeople reveals that “James Guthrie of this parish (Stracathro) and Elisabeth Wyllie of the parish of Edzell were married on 6th December (1793).” Elizabeth (1773-1827) was the lawful daughter of Thomas Wyllie and Isabel Black, which makes her a sister to Jean Wyllie who married James’ older brother, John Guthrie.

This couple lived in Eastertown of Dunlappie and were parents to the following: John (1795), Isobel (1796), Alexander (1798), Anne (1800), Jane (1803), and Ellen (1804).

There is a probate documented dated 6 Feb 1830 for a James Guthrie in Brechin that could be for this man. See Wills and testaments Reference SC47/40/6, Forfar Sheriff Court. This is likely the Jas. Guthrie buried at Brechin Cathedral on 10 Feb 1830. The only Elizabeth Guthrie noted to be buried there died too early to be his widow.

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Autosomal DNA Participants: Yes

CHARLES GUTHRIE
1773SCT – Aft. 1820

Born about 5 March 1773, Charles Guthrie was baptized that day in Menmuir Parish. “John Guthrie in Knowhead had a son baptized named Charles.” A tenant farmer, he was residing at Cookston at the time of John’s death in 1820, which is where his theorized grandparents, David Guthrie and Janet Stewart farmed.

Charles’ wife was named Sara Alexander. Her name is documented in the baptismal records of their children: Elizabeth (1802), John (1804), and David (1807).

There is a Chas. Guthrie buried at Brechin Cathedral in Angus on 27 Sep 1828 as well as a Sarah Guthrie Alexander who died Jan 1823. It is unconfirmed whether these graves and memorials belong to this couple.

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Autosomal DNA Participants: No

ROBERT GUTHRIE
1775SCT – 1802SCT

Robert Guthrie was baptized in Menmuir Parish on 15 March 1775 and noted as “John Guthrie in Knowhead had a son baptized named Robert.” He was only 27 at his death in 1802 having worked as a cattle dealer. No further info.

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Autosomal DNA Participants: No

JEAN GUTHRIE
1780SCT – Aft. 1820

“My youngest daughter” Jean Guthrie was baptized in 1780 and noted in the Menmuir Parish register. “Record of Children’s names in the parish of Menmuir baptized by Rev Mr James Gillies minister there commencing from 23 Dec 1779…. 22 Aug. John Guthrie in Knowhead had a daughter baptized named Jean.” No further info.

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Autosomal DNA Participants: No

HISTORICAL HIGHLIGHTS

1732-1733: BIRTH of JOHN GUTHRIE
There is no known existing OPR birth/baptism record for John Guthrie. His birth year is an estimated calculation from two sources. 1) The age of death written on the grave marker indicating he was 87 in 1820. 2) The autobiography of his grandson, Rev. Thomas Guthrie, D.D. who stated that he was 87 at his death.

The current theory about John’s ancestry is that his grandparents were David Guthrie and Janet Stewart in Cookston and Menmuir, and that his father was one of their eldest three sons, most likely son David Guthrie (1683). Reasoning that Rev. Thomas Guthrie identified John Guthrie’s father, his own great-grandfather, as being named David.

David Guthrie resided in Kincraig, so it is possible that John Guthrie was born and brought up there. Evidence remains lacking at this point

1745: THE JACOBITE RISING of 1745
This was an attempt by Charles Edward Stuart aka “Bonnie Prince Charlie” to regain the British throne for his father, James Francis Edward Stuart. People of the Guthrie surname participated on both sides of the rebellion. Many of the locals in Brechin were Episcopalian and/or had Jacobite leanings, reportedly sometimes given to violence, and had some years before ousted one of the local Presbyterian preachers, Mr Willison. The man even had difficulty finding someone to move his furnishings out of town to his new posting. John Guthrie’s grandson, Rev. Thomas Guthrie tells the story in his autobiography, and it is repeated in the History of Brechin. His great-grandfather, David Guthrie, took pity on the preacher and helped him on his way. The favor would be repaid in 1745 when the Duke of Cumberland and his men came through the local town and farms seizing farm horses in order to carry weapons and equipment north. This left farmers like David Guthrie without the means to plow their fields. He wrote to Mr Willison, who pleaded his case in a letter to the Duke of Cumberland, presumably conveying the circumstances of the kindness Guthrie had shown him, after which the Duke arranged for Guthrie’s horses to be returned. The History of Brechin identifies Guthrie as “John” rather than David Guthrie, but specifically mentions that he was a “tenant of Kincraig”. Rev. Guthrie’s grandfather John Guthrie would have been about 12 years old at the time of the Rising.

Abt. 1754: MARRIAGE of JOHN GUTHRIE and HELEN WYLLIE
This is an approximate year of marriage for this couple based on the estimated DOB of their presumed eldest son, Alexander Guthrie. No marriage record found in the Old Parish Records (OPR).

Abt. 1755: BIRTH of SON – ALEXANDER GUTHRIE
Knowhead, Menmuir, Scotland (inferred)
A family memorial lists the names of John Guthrie and Helen Wyllie’s children, both living at the time it was created, and those who died in infancy, childhood, or adulthood. Based on what is known from the family records, Alexander Guthrie appears to be the eldest son. No birth or baptismal records have been found for Alexander, but the notation in the Menmuir Parish records indicates that a new minister was performing baptisms commencing on 3 Dec 1758. This presumably means that Alexander and his sister Margaret, both believed to be born prior to that date would have most likely been baptized by someone else and that the events went unrecorded in the kirk records.

Abt. 1756: BIRTH of DAUGTHER – MARGARET GUTHRIE
Knowhead, Menmuir, Scotland (inferred)
The same is said for Margaret. Her birth is believed to be about 1756, but there is also nothing in the records to indicate that she could not be the eldest. One researcher states that the DOB for Margaret is possibly 24 May 1756, but has no documentation of the source.

1759: BIRTH & BAPTISM OF SON – JOHN GUTHRIE
Knowhead, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland in 1759
John Guthrie was probably born in May or June of 1759 at Knowhead. His baptism was recorded on 13 June 1759. (OPR)

1761: BIRTH & BAPTISM of SON – DAVID GUTHRIE
Knowhead, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland in 1761
David Guthrie was born in April or May of 1761 as he was baptized on 9 May 1761 in Menmuir. (OPR)

1763: BIRTH & BAPTISM of SON – GEORGE GUTHRIE
Knowhead, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland in 1763
George Guthrie was baptized on 26 January 1763. (OPR)

1765: BIRTH & BAPTISM of DAUGHTER – ISOBEL GUTHRIE
Knowhead, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland in 1765
Isobel Guthrie was probably born in October 1765. Her baptism was recorded in the OPR for 25 October 1765.

1767: (SPECULATED) DEATH of DAUGHTER – ISOBEL GUTHRIE
Knowhead, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland
Jervise transcribed the family monument as “Isabel, who died in childhood, 1787” but that would maker her about 22 and definitely an adult. Could he have mistaken a 6 for an 8 in the date? If Isobel did indeed die in childhood, she was probably 2 and not 22. Does anyone have legible photos of these gravestones?

1767: BIRTH of SON – THOMAS GUTHRIE
Knowhead, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland in 1767
Thomas’ baptism was recorded in the OPR as 3 December 1767, so he was probably born in late November or early December.

1769: BIRTH of SON – JAMES GUTHRIE
Knowhead, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland in 1769
OPR Baptismal records name James Guthrie as the son of John Guthrie of Knowhead, baptized on 6 November 1769.

1776: MARRIAGE of DAUGTHER – MARGARET GUTHRIE to ALEXANDER GUTHRIE
Menmuir, Angus, Scotland on 8 March 1776
“After due proclamation of banns Alex. Guthrie & Margt. Guthrie were married.” (OPR)

1780: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – JEAN GUTHRIE
Knowhead, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland in 1780
The baptismal record of John Guthrie’s youngest daughter is listed on 22 August 1780. (OPR)

1782: MARRIAGE of SON – DAVID GUTHRIE to CLEMENTINA CAY
Brechin, Angus, Scotland on 31 May 1782
“David Guthrie and Clementina Cay both in this parish were matrimonially contracted.”

1785: MARRIAGE of SON – ALEXANDER GUTHRIE to MARY GRAY
Brechin, Angus, Scotland on 5 August 1785
“July 29th Alex. Guthrie farmer in Mains of Findowrie and Mary Gray, daughter to the deceased Geo. Gray, sometime farmer in Mains of Baronnie, were contracted in order to marriage and having been proclaimed three several times were married 5th August.” (OPR)

1786: MARRIAGE of SON – JOHN GUTHRIE to JEAN WYLLIE
Edzell, Angus, Scotland on 16 December 1786
“John Guthrie in the parish of Menmuir & Jean Wyllie in this parish were contracted together in order to marriage.” (OPR)

1793: MARRIAGE of SON – JAMES GUTHRIE to ELISABETH WYLLIE
Stracathro, Angus, Scotland on 6 Dec 1793
“James Guthrie of this parish and Elisabeth Wyllie of the parish of Edzell were married on 6th December (1793).”

1795: DEATH of SON – THOMAS GUTHRIE
Dundee, Angus, Scotland on 1 December 1795
“Thomas Guthrie, merchant in Dundee son of John Guthrie, tenant in Knowehead, par. of Menmuir. [Testaments of Menmuir people from the Register of Testaments of the Commissariot of Brechin, 1576-1800]

1797-1798: FARM HORSE TAXES

PageLocationNamesNumber
Horses
Liable
in Duty
Not LiableDuty20% per 37 GeorgeIII
E326/10/9/141MenmuirJohn Guthrie Knowhead44£0.9.0£0.1.9.6
E326/10/9/141MenmuirJohn Guthrie Balhall55£0.11.3£0.2.3.0
E326/10/9/142MenmuirGeorge Guthrie Pitmoodie44£0.9.0£0.1.9.6
E326/10/9/142MenmuirAlexander Guthrie Ledmore66£0.13.6£0.2.8.4
E326/10/9/142MenmuirJohn Guthrie Balfour55£0.11.3£0.2.3.0
E326/10/9/99BrechinAlexander Guthrie Findoury55£0.11.3£0.2.3.0
E326/10/9/13TranentJohn Guthrie Medowmile11£0.2.3£0.0.5.4
E326/10/9/98StricathroJames Guthrie Er [Easter] town Dalapey44£0.9.0£0.1.9.6
E326/10/9/106DunDavid Guthrie Fordhouse55£0.11.3£0.2.3.0
E326/10/9/120GlamisThomas Guthry Scroggnfield33£0.6.9£0.1.4.2
E326/10/9/120GlamisGeorge Guthry Arnfeild22£0.4.6£0.0.10.8
E326/10/9/132TannadiceAlexander Guthrie Middle Coul44£0.9.0£0.1.9.6
E326/10/9/136TannadiceDavid Guthrie Milton (29 Sep 1797)44£0.9.0£0.1.9.6
E326/10/9/155St VigansThomas Guthrie Muirhead11£0.2.3£0.0.5.4
E326/10/9/155GuthrieJohn Guthrie of Guthrie (23 Sep 1797)66£0.13.6£0.2.8.4
E326/10/9/158ArbirlotPeter Guthrie Acres11£0.2.3£0.0.5.4
E326/10/9/163BarryRobert Guthry Budon11£0.2.3£0.0.5.4
E326/10/9/180DundeeCharles Guthrey Taybank22£0.4.6£0.0.10.8
E326/10/9/180DundeeJames Guthrey of Craigie642£0.9.0£0.1.9.6
Farm Horse Taxes 1797-1798
Volume 9 Angus, Scotland

1817: DEATH of SON – GEORGE GUTHRIE
Pitmoodie, Menmuir, Angus, Scotland
This may be an approximate DOD. I also have no burial location as there is no George Guthrie listed at Brechin Cathedral or the Menmuir Churchyard.

1824: DEATH of SON – DAVID GUTHRIE
Brechin, Angus, Scotland on 12 March 1824
David and his wife are buried at Brechin Cathedral. Their memorial stone reads: Sacred to the Memory of DAVID GUTHRIE merchant in Brechin and sometime Provost of that City Died 12th March 1824 aged 62. Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his! Also to the Memory of CLEMENTINA CAY his wife who died 18_ _ ___ ___ aged 77 years. (inscription illegible). Note that her DOD is listed as 18 May 1841.

1826: DEATH of SON – JOHN GUTHRIE
Menmuir, Angus, Scotland on 27 February 1826
Probate Records dated 26 October 1826 document the “Inventory of Personal Estate of the late Mr John Guthrie tenant in Balfour who died on the 27th day of February last.” 1826 Guthrie, John (Wills and testaments Reference SC47/40/3, Forfar Sheriff Court ).

Trustees and executors listed: Alexander Guthrie residing at Townhead of Brechin; William Wyllie tenant in mins of Edzell; David Guthrie merchant in Brechin , John Guthrie banker in montrose; Alexander Scott tenant in Balconnel; and Mrs Jean Wyllie or Guthrie,widow of the said defunct.

John Guthrie was buried at the Menmuir Churchyard on 27 February 1826. His widow Jean survived him by 3 years. Buried at the same location on 21 May 1829.

1827: DEATH of SON – ALEXANDER GUTHRIE
July 1827, Angus, Scotland
Buried at Brechin Cathedral, Brechin, Angus, Scotland on 25 July 1827.
Inventory and Probate documents dated 3 October 1827. Forfar Sheriff Court.

1830: (PROBABLE) DEATH of SON – JAMES GUTHRIE
Dunlappie, Stracathro, Angus, Scotland (inferred location) on 6 Feb 1830.
At the time of his father’s death in 1820, James was still a tenant at Dunlappie, which is where he lived throughout his marriage at Eastertown of Dunlappie in Stacathro. The DOD for a James Guthrie is listed as 6 Feb 1830, and data recorded in the Wills and testaments Reference SC47/40/6, Forfar Sheriff Court. This year corresponds with the James Guthrie buried at Brechin Cathedral on 10 February 1830.

1839: DEATH of DAUGHTER – MARGARET (GUTHRIE) GUTHRIE
Scotland on 26 October 1839
This date may be her burial date rather than death date, recorded at Menmuir Churchyard on 26 Oct 1839, or both. Her husband Alexander Guthrie had died in three years earlier being buried on 20 Nov 1836 at the same location.

THE GUTHRIE DNA PROJECT

Guthrie Family Group: GFG17
Group Designation: Branch A – The Guthries in Knowhead

Haplogroup: R-M269
Confirmed Haplogroup: Not Yet Tested

YDNA Matches: 1
Kit 711901 (YDNA +FF)
John Guthrie/Helen Wyllie > David Guthrie/Clementina Cay > Thomas Guthrie/Anne Burns (GP)

Family Finder / Autosomal DNA Kits: 5
Kit B380676
Kit B380705
Kit B380715
Kit B380720

These 4 kit are siblings with the following double Guthrie lineage:
John Guthrie/Helen Wyllie > Margaret Guthrie/Alexander Guthrie* > Margaret Guthrie/John Aitken > James Guthrie Aitken/Jane Arnott > George Arnott Aitkin/Emily Chapman > George Arnott Aitken/Etola Loumis Rider (GGP)
* Alexander Guthrie is the son of David Guthrie (1717-1781) & Ann Skair in Burnside, grandson of Alexander Guthrie & Anne Ker in Balfour, and great-grandson of David Guthrie & Janet Stewart in Cookston.

Kit 510440
John Guthrie/Helen Wyllie > James Guthrie/Elizabeth Wyllie > Alexander Guthrie/Isabella Kidd > John Guthrie/ Jane Parker Rickard (2xGGP)

Kit 566642
John Guthrie/Helen Wyllie > James Guthrie/Elizabeth Wyllie > Alexander Guthrie/Isabella Kidd > John Guthrie/ Jane Parker Rickard (GGP)

Findings:
A new Guthrie Family Group labelled as GFG17 has been formed. The Y-DNA of two participants does not match up with any other genetic line currently identified within the project, yet they do match each other and have a strong ancestral connection to the same region in Scotland. Matching Y-DNA is conclusive genetic evidence for a shared common on their direct paternal line.

Our Y-DNA participant, Kit 711901 is a 36/37 match for the Guthrie whose ancestors are designated as Branch B descending from David Guthrie and Elspet Christie in Cortachy. Both John Guthrie in Knowhead and David Guthrie in Cortachy are theorized to be descendants of David Guthrie & Janet Stewart.

There is only 1 genetic difference between the Branch A and Branch B participants at the Y37 level giving us a very high probability that their most recent common ancestor (MRCA) can already be found within the speculated # of generations. More Y-DNA participation from Guthrie men who descend from David Guthrie & Janet Stewart is needed to solidify this theory as the paper trail in the Old Parish Records gets pretty thin.

The 4 siblings who happen to have double-Guthrie ancestry cannot help differentiate the Knowhead line from the Balfour line because their Guthrie-Guthrie intermarriage is theoretically that of 2nd cousins descending from the same Guthrie lineage.

The 2 Guthrie-Rickard lines are an uncle and nephew, so their results have some of the same genetic matches, too. Importantly, one of them is also an autosomal match for our YDNA participant from Branch A.

The Branch B participant does not currently have an Autosomal DNA test, but his daughter does. She has matches to several people connected to other descendants of David Guthrie & Janet Stewart.

READING & RESOURCES

BOOK: Guthrie, Thomas. Autobiography of Thomas Guthrie, D.D. and Memoir by his sons Rev. David K Guthrie and Charles J Guthrie, M.A. in Two Volumes. 1874. New York. Robert Carter and Brothers. Digital Repository: HaithiTrust.

BOOK: Jervis, Andrew. Epitaphs & Inscriptions from Burial Grounds & Old buildings, etc., Volume II, 1879. Edinburgh. Digital Repository: Electric Scotland.

WEBSITE: ScotlandsPeople. Old Parish Records – Births, Baptism, Marriages, Deaths. Legal Records. More.

WEBSITE: ScotlandsPlaces. Angus. Digital Originals and Transcriptions of documents, books and tax rolls.

BOOK: Black, David D. The History of Brechin to 1864. Chapter VI. The History of Brechin from 1700 to 1727.


PHOTOS of the MENMUIR CHURCHYARD
Credited to and Contributed by Anne Burgess, Guthrie Family Researcher

To the memory of JOHN GUTHRIE Tenant of Knowhead who died 1st October 1820 aged 87 years and of Helen Wyllie his spouse who died 12th June 1821 aged 85 years having lived 66 years in the married state and . . . memory of their children who died before them Viz ISABEL died in childhood 1767 THOMAS merchant Dundee in 1794 ROBERT cattle dealer in 1802 GEORGE late tenant Pitmoodie in 1817.
Close up view of John Guthrie’s DOD and Age at Death.
Erected by JANE GUTHRIE in memory of her husband GEORGE CAMPBELL who died at Arbroath 8th January 1874 aged 80 years. The above mentioned JANE CAMPBELL died at Arbroath the 5th September 1889 aged 78 years and is interred here.
Erected by JAMES GUTHRIE merchant Singapore in memory of his father DAVID GUTHRIE son of ALEXANDER GUTHRIE of Burnside who died on 11th December 1834, aged 56 years. Also in memory of his brother ALEXANDER GUTHRIE who died on 13th December aged 22 years and in memory of his mother CATHERINE GRANT who died on 14th April 1869 aged 89.
Erected by ALEXANDER GUTHRIE Merchant in Singapore in memory of his father ALEXANDER GUTHRIE proprietor of Burnside and sometime tenant of Leadmore who died on 26th october 1829 aged 84 years. Also in memory of his brothers DAVID who died on 11th December 1834 aged 36 years JAMES who died on 6th February 1830 aged 42 THOMAS who died on 30th September 1811 aged 49 years. And of his sister MARGARET who died on 6th June 1811 aged 61 years. Also in memory of BETTY, ISABEL, ALEXANDER and HELEN who all died in infancy. JAMES and MARGARET are buried in the churchyard of Brechin the others are interred here.
Sacred to the memory of JOHN GUTHRIE Tenant of Balfour who died on the 27th February 1823 aged 68 years And of his spouse JEAN WYLLIE who died 21st May 1822 aged 68 years. Their son JAMES who died 16th March 1815 aged 22 years.
Erected by ALEXANDER GUTHRIE Tenant at Balhall in memory of his spouse JEAN WYLLIE who died the 16th of Agt 1799 aged nearly 72 years. And their children procreate betwixt them Viz ISABLE ALEXR MARGARET DAVID ANN and JOHN GUTHRIES who all survives at this present date 1799.

Not Pictured:
Erected by STEWART GUTHRIE in memory of her daughter GEORGINA BELL CAMPBELL born 14th April 1854 died 29th April 1867. Also of the above STEWARTINA GUTHRIE wife of JAMES MAIR Dalhousie Cottage Brechin who died there 16th December 1904 aged 80 years.

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