A: George Nelson Guthrie & Unknown (MNU)
The Family of George Nelson Guthrie & Unidentified Spouse
The Guthrie DNA Project
ORIGIN THEORIES for GFG14 – BRANCH A
According to the ‘Guthrie Family History’ by Henry Guthrie, George Nelson Guthrie was one of 4 brothers. At the time of the Revolutionary War, George moved to the west with his family. Just how far “west” is the question. PA is the most likely location. The other three brothers, all unidentified in the family tale, remained behind to fight, with two of them reportedly being high ranking in their military service.
Discovering the identities of George Nelson Guthrie’s brothers might seem to be a straightforward task by using Y-DNA (direct paternal line genetics) to match his descendants with Guthrie men of the same profile except for the fact that George’s descendants appear to have Y-DNA originating with the Joyce surname. This is likely the result of false paternity or adoption which has introduced Joyce YDNA into the Guthrie family. The question is whether or not George Nelson Guthrie is the original person with Joyce YDNA or if the genetic mismatch was introduced in an earlier generation.
So far, we have genetic matches to men who descend from two of George’s sons. This tells us that the mismatch was inherited from George. In order to determine if the Joyce YDNA came from a previous generation, we need other matches to Guthrie Family Group 14. There is currently 1 other match to this group. See GFG14-Branch B: Descendants of William Guthrie and Susan Wright. William Guthrie, born in 1803 NY, is a good candidate to be a son or grandson of George Nelson Guthrie, but there is no documentation to connect them. Nor is there any documentation to connect William to any other set of parents. If he descends from someone other than George Nelson Guthrie, it would likely be one of George’s brothers, which would prove the original genetic mismatch occurred prior to their generation. For now, it looks like George was the original Guthrie with Joyce YDNA.
The 1790 New York Census is the earliest record for a quick look at possible Joyce family locations. There are several listed in Albany, NY, and one family each in Dutchess County, New York County, and Suffolk County, NY.
The sons of this family are associated with Columbiana, Richland and Ashland Counties, Ohio, and LaGrange County, Indiana. It is unknown if George Guthrie traveled to Ohio with his sons or if they ventured west on their own.
George Nelson Guthrie, his family, and the documents associated with him are frequently found intermingled with another genetically unrelated man named George Guthrie 1750PA-1850PA of Huntingdon and Hollidaysburg, PA who married Margaret Campbell. See GFG2A-Branch E.
The two most common Guthrie Family Groups found living in New York State during the 1700s-1800s are GFG2A and GFG6. Either of these groups could be the historical family connection for GFG14 descendants of George Nelson Guthrie. The most likely fit is GFG6 from Washington County, NY, which would mean that George Nelson Guthrie is probably the same person as the George Guthrie who married Elizabeth Cleghorn. Administration of his estate was given to his brother, Samuel Guthrie, but I have no details about any heirs. There is also no indication that George & Elizabeth ever left New York for Pennsylvania because most of the documents found are dated post-Revolution. If he is the same man, it would seem that he returned to NY.
THE FAMILY of GEORGE NELSON GUTHRIE
GEORGE NELSON GUTHRIE
Location: Unknown, possibly in New York State
Marriage: Presumably married to Unknown Spouse
Died: Unknown, presumably during the early 1800s
Location: Unknown, presumably Pennsylvania or Ohio
Sons: John Ernest Guthrie (1774), Richard Guthrie (1777), William Guthrie (1785), Samuel Guthrie (1792)
Daughters: Hannah Guthrie (1794)
JOHN ERNEST GUTHRIE
John Guthrie was reportedly born in New York State on 17 December 1774. He married Susannah Hodgkinson about 1797. Their family was living in Richland County, Ohio during the 1820 and 1830 census periods. When John died in 1839 at Springfield, Richland, Ohio, his will was probated there and proved by the oaths of Henry Crabs & Andrew Chambers the subscribing witnesses in open court on 1 Nov 1839. The executors of the will were William Guthrie and John Guthrie. Probate documents include a copy of the will. He mentions, but does not name his ‘beloved wife’ leaving her half of the farm upon which they live in Springfield containing about 24 acres during her life, and other items. Son William Guthrie was to receive the other half of the farm. He also names son Richard. His sons William and John appointed his executors. John’s widow, Susannah, died in Richland County, OH in 1854.
Sons: William Guthrie (1801), Richard Michael Guthrie (1807), John Guthrie (18??)
Daughters: Margaret Guthrie (1798), Jane Guthrie (1802), Hannah Guthrie (1806), Mary Guthrie (1815)
Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Family Finder Participants:
Some family notes on this Guthrie line indicate that George Nelson Guthrie settled with his wife and young family somewhere around Pittsburgh, PA. While in the mountains en route, his wife gave birth to twins, one of whom was Richard. Status of the other twin is unknown. This was a family of farmers and distillers. Richard Guthrie was in Columbiana County, OH by 1806 when he was named as a member of Capt. William M Laughlin’s Company of the 1st Regiment of the 2nd Brigade, 4th Division, Ohio. He married Mary Van Scoyoc in New Lisbon, Columbiana, OH on 11 February 1812. Richard died on 27 May 1851 in Perrysville, Ashland, Ohio.
Sons: John K Guthrie (1811), Stephen Guthrie (1815), George Guthrie (1822), Infant Twin Guthrie (1824), Lewis Guthrie (1825), Richard Jackson Guthrie (1828), William W Guthrie (1834), Simon Guthrie (1835)
Daughters: Margaret Guthrie (1814), Jane Guthrie (1817), Sarah Guthrie (1818), Elizabeth Guthrie (1820), Mary Guthrie (1821), Kiziah Guthrie (1824), Susanna Marian Guthrie (1827), Mariah Guthrie (1830), Hannah Guthrie (1832)
Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Family Finder Participants: Yes
There is a William Guthrie named in online trees as a son of George Nelson Guthrie. Taking a stab at identifying William Guthrie in census records, I would say that he is the man listed in Green, Richland, OH in 1820 and in Springfield, Richland, OH in 1830 based on the locations family to this group. However, his age range of 50-59 in 1830 would put his DOB as 1771-1780, which is still appropriate as a son of George Nelson Guthrie, but not the original 1785 date found in trees. His name is listed close to Richard Guthrie in 1820 and next to that of Samuel Guthrie in 1830. William had a wife and 3 daughters living in his household in 1820, but is alone in 1830.
Sons: None Known
Daughters: Unknown (b.1795-1804), Unknown (b.1795-1804), Unknown (b.1811-1820)
The 1850 Census lists Samuel’s birth location as Pennsylvania. He was born there about 1792. His wife was named Mary (MNU). They were living in East Greenfield, LaGrange, Indiana just a few doors down from their son John Guthrie during the 1850 census. No further data.
Sons: John Nelson Guthrie (1822), George N Guthrie (b.1816-1825), Unknown (b.1816-1820), Unknown (b.1831-1835)
Daughters: Unknown (b.1811-1820), Unknown (b.1811-1815), Unknown (b.1826-1830)
Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Family Finder Participants: No
Hannah Guthrie was born about 1794. She married Isaac Slater on 6 April 1812 in Columbiana, Ohio, USA at the 1st Baptist Church in New Lisbon. They lived in Richland, OH in 1820, Crawford, OH in 1830, and LaGrange, IN in 1840. Hannah appears to be dead by 1850 as she is not listed with Isaac in the 1850 census of East Greenfield, LaGrange, Indiana, USA. The household was listed next to John Guthrie’s family and close to Samuel & Mary Guthrie.
Slater Sons: Thomas Slater (1812), Samuel Owen Slater (1820), George N Slater (1825)
Slater Daughters: Margaret Slater (1813)
Family Finder Participants: No
1730-1750: BIRTH of GEORGE NELSON GUTHRIE
Colony of New York, presumably
This is a broad estimate for the birth year of George Nelson Guthrie. He was most likely 20-40ish at the time of his eldest son’s birth. His birth location is unknown, but presumed to be in New York.
About 1770: MARRIAGE of GEORGE NELSON GUTHRIE
Colony of New York, presumably
1774: BIRTH of SON – JOHN ERNEST GUTHRIE
Colony of New York on 17 December 1774
1777: BIRTH of SON – RICHARD GUTHRIE
New York, USA about 1777
1785: BIRTH of SON – WILLIAM GUTHRIE
New York, USA about 1785
1787: FORMATION of the NORTHWEST TERRITORY
The Continental Congress created the Northwest Territory on 13 July 1878. The area included lands that would become Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan.
1788: WASHINGTON COUNTY FORMATION
Washington County was formed as the first county in the Northwest Territory. It included most of what would become eastern and southeastern Ohio.
1790: US CENSUS
New York and Pennsylvania, USA
In 1790, George Nelson Guthrie and family might have been in New York or Pennsylvania. Assuming that he was listed as the Head of Household, we might expect to find him and his sons listed on the census. The following are listed:
1) George Gutherie of Hebron, Washington, NY
1 – Male – 16 and over
1 – Male – Under 16
2 – Females
Note: This is household is inferred to be GFG6 – George & Elizabeth
(Cleghorn) Guthrie could potentially be the same as George Nelson
Guthrie and wife. There are no confirmed Guthrie-Cleghorn male
descendants for testing.
2) George Guthrie of Huntingdon, PA
4 – Males – 16 and over
1 – Male – Under 16
3 – Females
Note: This is a GFG2A household – George Guthrie & Margaret Campbell.
A direct male descendant of George & Margaret’s son matches
GFG2A, which confirms that he cannot be identical to the person
known as George Nelson Guthrie.
3) George Guyther of St Mary’s, Maryland
1 – Male – 16 and over
1 – Female
10 – Slaves
Note: This household is unverified as Guthrie, and remains unidentified.
1792: BIRTH of SON – SAMUEL GUTHRIE
Pennsylvania, USA about 1792
1794: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – HANNAH GUTHRIE
Pennsylvania, USA about 1794
1797: MARRIAGE of SON – JOHN ERNEST GUTHRIE
Pennsylvania, USA, presumably
John married his Irish bride Susanna Hodgkinson about 1797. Their eldest children are noted to be born in Pennsylvania, so that is a likely location for their marriage. They were settled in Richland County, Ohio by 1820. Their children were: Margaret (1797), William (1801), Jane (1802), Hannah (1806), Richard Michael (1807), Mary (1815), John (18??). John died about 1839 in Richland, and Susanna in 1854.
1799: JEFFERSON COUNTY OHIO FORMATION
Washington County, Ohio, USA
1803: OHIO STATEHOOD
The Northwest Territory on 1 March 1803
Ohio became the first state formed from the Northwest Territory.
1803: COLUMBIANA COUNTY OHIO FORMATION
Jefferson County, Ohio, USA
Located on the OH-PA border, Columbiana County was founded in 1803 being formed from Jefferson County, Ohio.
1806: MILITARY SERVICE by SON – RICHARD GUTHRIE
Columbiana County, Ohio, USA
Richard Guthrie was in Captain William M Laughlin’s Company of the 1st Regiment of the 2nd Brigade, 4th Division, Ohio, organized in Columbiana County, Ohio on 8 May 1806.
1810: OHIO CENSUS LOST
Except for Washington County, Ohio, the 1810 Federal Census was lost.
1810: MARRIAGE of SON – SAMUEL GUTHRIE
Ohio, USA, presumably, about 1810
Samuel Guthrie married Mary (MNU) about 1810 as estimated by the birth range for their eldest children. Several children remain unidentified, but they are credited with being parents to George N Guthrie (18??) and John Nelson Guthrie (1822). Samuel and Mary died sometime after the 1850 census of East Greenfield, LaGrange, Indiana. That census year a George Pierce, a 6 year old is living with them, who could be a grandchild. A clue to perhaps identifying one of their daughters.
1812: MARRIAGE of SON – RICHARD GUTHRIE
New Lisbon, Columbiana, Ohio, USA on 11 February 1812
Richard Guthrie married Mary Van Scoyoc. They settled in Green, Richland, Ohio. Ashland County was formed from Richland in 1846, so the name of their county changed at that time. Richard was a farmer and distiller. He and his wife Mary were parents to 17 children born between 1811-1835: John K (1811), Margaret (1814), Stephen (1815), Jane (1817), Sarah (1818), Elizabeth (1820), Mary (1821), George (1822), Infant Twin (1824), Kiziah (1824), Lewis (1825), Susanna Marian (1827), Richard Jackson (1828), Mariah (1830), Hannah (1832), William W (1834), and Simon (1835). Richard died 27 May 1851 in Perrysville, Ashland, Ohio. Mary survived him. She died in 1875.
1812: MARRIAGE of DAUGHTER – HANNAH GUTHRIE
New Lisbon, Columbiana County, Ohio, USA on 6 April 1812
Hannah Guthrie married Isaac Slater at the 1st Baptist Church in New Lisbon. They were living in Washington, Richland County, OH during the 1820 census, moved to Liberty, Crawford, OH by 1830, and then to Greenfield, LaGrange, IN by 1840. Their children were Thomas (1812), Margaret (1813), Samuel Owen (1820), George N (1825)
THE GUTHRIE DNA PROJECT
Guthrie Family Group: GFG14
Group Designation: Branch A – (The Guthries of New York State)
Confirmed Haplogroup: R-M269
YDNA Matches: 3
George Nelson Guthrie/Unidentifed MNU > Richard Guthrie/Mary Van Scoyoc > Stephen Guthrie/Kezia Wellington > Levi Guthrie/Sarah Ann Zongker (GGP) +more
George Nelson Guthrie/Unidentified MNU > Samuel Guthrie/Mary MNU > John Nelson Guthrie/Nancy Duncan > Jasper Guthrie/Mary Ellen Hipshire (GGP) +more
George Nelson Guthrie/Unidentifed MNU > Richard Guthrie/Mary Van Scoyoc > Richard Jackson Guthrie/Eliza Jane Poland > Mathias Jefferson Guthrie/Hattie Naomi Flatt > Homer Robert Guthrie/Lucille Houghton (GGP)
Family Finder / Autosomal DNA Matches: 1
George Nelson Guthrie/Unidentified MNU > Richard Guthrie/Mary Van Scoyoc > John K Guthrie/Margaret Slater > John Isaac Guthrie/Phebe Ann Kerschner (GGP) +more
The primary surname match for descendants with YDNA tests is to men of the JOYCE surname This suggests a non-paternal event or adoption has introduced Joyce YDNA into the Guthrie line. So far it looks like George Nelson Guthrie might be the first because there is no sign of other genetic matches to descendants of men matching the description of his 3 brothers from New York State.
Kit 173419 is a YDNA-67 marker test.
Kit 286339 is a YDNA-37 marker test, which matches 37/37 the results of the other two tests.
Kit 114046 is a YDNA-37 marker test, which matches 37/37 the results of the other two tests.
The descendant of the GFG14-Branch B line has a YDNA-37 marker test that has 2 genetic variances compared to Group Mode DNA (the most common value for the group). These changes could reflect recent random mutations in the YDNA, or they could be signs of inherited genetic change. Due to the small size of the group, it is impossible to determine if the changes are significant to our research.
DYS455=12 instead of 11
DYS449=30 instead of 31.