A: James Guthrie & Christian Scott

ORIGIN THEORIES for GFG1A BRANCH A

James Guthrie (Merchant) 1669SCT-1711SCT & Christian Scott
of Dundee, Angus, Scotland

When we think about our GUTHRIE surname and its potential Scottish origins, it is likely that we associate it with the GUTHRIES of GUTHRIE and the builders of GUTHRIE CASTLE in Forfar, Angus, Scotland. The DNA project results have revealed that people of GUTHRIE ancestry come from a variety of genetic origins, and are therefore not all genetic descendants of the GUTHRIES of GUTHRIE. If any group can claim that connection at this time it is GFG1A. The GUTHRIE DNA PROJECT is fortunate to have a direct descendant of the GUTHRIES of CRAIGIE as a participant. This family, by its historical connections, descends from the GUTHRIES of GUTHRIE, so the results may be inferred as a match until subsequent DNA testing provides a second sample for confirmation.

The Guthrie surname goes back to the Middle Ages. Our numerous Guthrie groups evolved over the hundreds of years following whether they had connections to the family of that name, to the place of that name, or a foreign variation of the name that may have become anglicized. There is an historical Guthrie tree that tracks down the generations from Alexander Guthrie, 1st Laird of Kincaldrum, 1410-1470, who obtained a charter to the lands of Kincaldrum in the Barony of Lower Leslie and Sheriffdom of Forfar from Sir Thomas Wemyss. There were 4 sons known to this family, one of whom was David Guthrie, created 1st Baron of Guthrie, 2nd Kincaldrum. The laird and his wife, Janet Dundas perpetuated the lineage of the Guthries of Guthrie and its associated lineages. Documentation is scattered as one might expect for a family with such early connection, but improves over the course of time. The closer the association with a titled person, the more likely an individual is to be noted in the records. Lands and titles purchased, obtained, or granted are traceable to those who inherited them. This is the lineage connected to the GUTHRIES of GUTHRIE, the GUTHRIES of GAIGIE, the GUTHRIES of TAYBANK, and GUTHRIES of CRAIGIE spelled out in that ancient rhyme.

One key factor for all Guthrie descendants to keep in mind is that Y-DNA tests prove common paternal ancestry. They do not validate an historical lineage as a whole. We can infer that the genetic line might have originated there, but we need additional evidence to prove it. These genetic matches do not instantly prove that the entire lineage going back to 1410 is of the same origin because as we all know, life happens, and so do paternal events, adoptions, and feudal laws. Genetically, we have to confirm the family ties one generation at a time. The ability to do that depends on the participants tested and whether their origins can be adequately traced within the lineage documented in our Guthrie Research Tree.

THE GUTHRIE DNA PROJECT

Guthrie Family Group: GFG1A
Group Designation: Branch A – (The Guthries of Craigie)

Haplogroup: R-M269
Confirmed Haplogroup: R-Y62042

YDNA Matches:
Kit 72673
(Historical Guthrie Lineage) > James Guthrie (Merchant) 1669SCT-1711SCT > Patrick Guthrie 1704SCT-17__ > Patrick Guthrie c1731-17__ > Patrick ‘Peter’ Guthrie 1757-___ > John Guthrie 1792SCT-1867SCT > George Guthrie 1821SCT-1898SCT (2xGGF) +more

Kit 74203
(Historical Guthrie Lineage) > James Guthrie (Merchant) 1669SCT-1711SCT > James Guthrie (1st Baron Craigie) 1698-1788 > James Guthrie (2nd Baron Craigie) 1740-1830 > George Dempster Guthrie 1777-1813 (2xGGF) +more


Family Finder / Autosomal DNA Kits:
Kit B146882
(Historical Guthrie Lineage) > James Guthrie (Merchant) 1669SCT-1711SCT > Patrick Guthrie 1704SCT-17__ > Patrick Guthrie c1731-17__ > Patrick ‘Peter’ Guthrie 1757-___ > Jane Guthrie 1803ENG-1878SCT (3xGGM)

KIT B461908
(Historical Guthrie Lineage) > James Guthrie (Merchant) 1669SCT-1711SCT > Patrick Guthrie 1704SCT-17__ > Patrick Guthrie c1731-17__ > Patrick ‘Peter’ Guthrie 1757-___ > Jane Guthrie 1803ENG-1878SCT (4xGGM)


Findings:

Our volunteer VIP is a direct descendant of the Guthries of Craigie. His Y111 DNA test is a genetic match for the Guthrie men in Guthrie Family Group 1A whose primary American origins are in colonial Virginia and Maryland.

He has 6 genetic variances compared to Group Mode DNA. According to the FTDNA Y111 Interpretation Chart that estimates the Most Recent Common Ancestor with the bulk of the group would be 50% likely to be found within 10 generations and 95% chance within 20 generations.

Three of those six mutations are shared by 1 other member of the group. See Kit 72673 above. Traditional research has connected the ancestor of this participant directly into the documented ancestral lineage of the Guthries of Craigie. The MRCA between the two kits is James Guthrie (Merchant) 1669SCT-1711SCT and his wife Christian Scott. This connection proves the genetic line for this group as far back as their generation. Taking it further back to other documented parts of the historical Guthrie tree depends on future matches and further evidence of how the individuals lineages tie into it.

Two other men share two of the three mutations (Kits 846168 and 294936), which may indicate a MRCA to the above line as compared to one shared with the part of the group based in Middlesex County, VA.

THE FAMILY of JAMES GUTHRIE & CHRISTIAN SCOTT

JAMES GUTHRIE
Parents: John Guthrie & Isobel Lamb
Born: 20 Apr 1669
Location: Dundee, Angus, Scotland
Marriage: Christian Scott on 23 Apr 1695 in Dundee, Angus, Scotland (OPR)
Occupation: Merchant
Death: 1711
Location: Scotland, presumably at Craigie
Buried: Scotland, presumably at Craigie


CHRISTIAN SCOTT
Parents: John Scot & Christian Watson (OPR)
Born: 29 Nov 1669
Location: Dundee, Angus, Scotland
Sons: John, James, Robert, Thomas, William, Patrick, Alexander, Hendrie
Daughters: Issobell
Death: Unknown, after 1707
Location: Scotland, presumably at Craigie
Buried: Scotland, presumably at Craigie


CHILDREN: 9

ISSOBELL GUTHRIE
1695SCT – Unknown

Issobell Guthrie, daughter of James Guthrie and Christian Scott was baptized on Monday, 30 December 1695 in Dundee, Angus, Scotland.

There is a long somewhat illegible list of godparents and witnesses on the Old Parish Record (OPR). Isobel___, John Scot ___, Christian Watson ___, Kats Rtson?__, Jo: Guthrie, Jo: Scott, Ja: Stewart, Jo: Scott, Thos: Scott, Mr Jo: Guthrie, Gilb: Guthrie.

There are 2 Dundee marriages listed for women named Isobell Guthrie between 1710-1730 (approx age 10-35).
Isobell Guthrie & James Chrighton 3 Dec 1713
Isobel Guthrie & David Gairden 8 Jan 1729

Children: Unknown

Family Finder Participants: No


JOHN GUTHRIE
1697SCT – 1741SCT

John Guthrie was born probably born in Dec 1696 or Jan 1697. He was baptized on 14 Jan 1697. He was the eldest son of James Guthrie (Merchant) and Christian Scot. Name Fathers: Mr JO: GUTHRIE _, JO: SCOTT weaver, JO: SCOTT younger, merchant.

On 28 May 1722, John Guthrie married Ann Dempster, the daughter of George Dempster of Dundee. They became parents to 9 children and appear to have continued to live in Dundee.

Children: 9
Sons: James, George, James, John
Daughters: Christian, Margaret, Bell, Elizabeth, Jean

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Family Finder Participants: No


JAMES GUTHRIE (1ST BARON of CRAIGIE)
1698SCT – 1788SCT

James Guthrie, second son of James Guthrie and Christian Scot, was born on 28 March 1698 and baptized on 30 March 1698 at Dundee, Angus, Scotland. Name Fathers: JAMES GUTHRIE, son to Mr JO: GUTHRIE merchant; JA: CRAWFORD son to _ CRAWFORD, merchant, JAMES MARE? Merchant.

James Guthrie married Elizabeth, daughter of David Gardyne of Middleton on 22 July 1733. She died on 25 July 1745, while he survived until 9 March 1788. The couple had a number of children, including James who became 2nd Baron Guthrie of Craigie.

James Guthrie of Hiltoun of Craigie and other lands, is recorded in a crown charter of 12 February 1729 also as James Guthrie 1st Baron of Craigie, 6 August 1764. In 1766 James Guthrie Jr. of Craigie bought the superiorities of the third part of Craigie from Dundee Town Council. According to the Directory of Landownership in Scotland circa 1770, the third greatest by value landowner in Dundee was Guthrie of Craigie, with his lands of Craigie worth £1500. (Source)

Children: 7
Sons: James, David
Daughters: Ann, Christian, Jean, Emelia, Lilias

Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Family Finder Participants: No



ROBERT GUTHRIE
1699SCT – 1784SCT

Robert Guthrie, the third son and fourth child of James Guthrie & Christian Scott, was born on 4 Jun 1699. He was baptized in Dundee, Angus, Scotland. Name Fathers: ROT: LAMB of Aldbarr, MR ROT: RAIT Minister of Dundee, ROT: LAUDERDALE surveyor of his majesty’s customs & ROT: WATSON merchant.

Robert Guthrie is also styled as a merchant by trade. He was married to Jean Fowler on 3 August 1728 by whom he had several daughters. There is also some question about two children, James Guthrie and Clara Guthrie. Documentation clearly identifies Robert Guthrie, merchant, and a witness being James Guthrie, Laird of Craigie, uncle to the boy James. However, the mother in both cases is identified as Ann Fuller. These children are likely illegitimate. Robert’s wife Jean Fowler was apparently still living because she bore 3 other daughters.

Children: 6
Sons: James
Daughters: Christian, Clara, Jean, Ann, Elizabeth

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Family Finder Participants: No


THOMAS GUTHRIE
1700SCT – 17__SCT

Thomas was born on 8 Oct 1700. He was baptized at Dundee, Angus, Scotland two days later.

Name Fathers: TSO: MOODIE _, TSO: WATSON merchant, THO: WATSON younger of Grange

Thomas died unmarried. No further details.


WILLIAM GUTHRIE
1702SCT – 17__SCT

William Guthrie was born in April 1702. His baptism occurred on 22 April 1702 at Dundee, Angus, Scotland.

Name Fathers: WM SCOTT merchant, WM CRAWFORD son to _ CRAWFORD, WM TRAIL son to GEO. TRAIL.

William died unmarried. No further details.


PATRICK GUTHRIE
1704SCT – 17__SCT

Patrick Guthrie was born and baptized on 5 Oct 1704 in Dundee, Angus, Scotland. His godfathers are PAT: BARCLAY of _ mariner, & PAT: SCOTT mariner, Uncle, PAT: BALNAVOS mercht, PAT: merchant in Rotterdam.

He married Agnes Foord on 3 Jun 1726 at St Vigeans, Angus, Scotland. They lived at Auchmithie. Patrick and Agnes died sometime after the birth of their last child in 1739 at unknown dates/locations.

Children: 5
Sons: Patrick, James
Daughters: Jannet, Barbara, Anna

Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Family Finder Participants: No


ALEXANDER GUTHRIE
1706SCT – 1775SCT

Alexander Guthrie was born on 20 March 1706. No OPR record was found for his birth or baptism linking him to his parents, however the OPR records of his children identifying grandparents prove the relationship.

Alexander married Mrs Elizabeth Moray on 5 Dec 1738, recorded at Dundee, Angus, Scotland. He was then listed as a merchant. Their marriage likely took place in Perth, Scotland at the meeting house of Mr Lyon, minister. They were parents to 8 children including Charles Guthrie, who would become 1st Baron of Taybank.

Children: 8
Sons: James, Robert, Alexander, Charles, John
Daughters: Christian, Elizabeth, Janet

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Family Finder Participants: Yes


HENDRIE GUTHRIE
1707SCT – 17__SCT

Hendrie Guthrie was born/baptized 29 April 1707 in Dundee, Angus, Scotland.

His godfathers are HEND: SCOTT merchant in London uncle, BOND CRAFORD merchant, BOND GUTHRIE march, BOND ROGER march in Koromoor.

He died unmarried. No further details.

HISTORICAL HIGHLIGHTS

1669: BIRTH of JAMES GUTHRIE – (JOHN GUTHRIE & ISOBEL LAMB)
James Guthrie was the 2nd of four sons of Rev. John Guthrie and Isobel Lamb, and somewhere in the middle of the births of his other siblings. He was born/baptized on 24 April 1669. His father, Rev. John Guthrie had become minister at Arbirlot in 1665, but was minister of South Church in 1667. James and his eldest sibling, John Guthrie, were reportedly the only two children to survive.

1683: DEATH of MOTHER – ISOBEL (LAMB) GUTHRIE
Isobel’s death was noted to be in 1683.

1686: DEATH of FATHER – REVEREND JOHN GUTHRIE
John’s death is listed as 1686. Probate documents are dated 1688.
Guthrie, John (Wills and testaments Reference CC3/3/7, Brechin Commissary Court ) – Son John Guthrie and daughter Isobel Guthrie are joint executors.

1695: MARRIAGE of JAMES GUTHRIE & CHRISTIAN SCOTT
Dundee, Angus, Scotland on 23 April 1695
JA. GUTHRIE & CHRIST. SCOT.
(Old Parish Registers Marriages 282/ 120 18 Dundee)

1695: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – ISSOBELL GUTHRIE
Dundee, Angus, Scotland on 2 Dec 1685
It appears that daughter Issobell Guthrie was either premature by nearly 2 months or was conceived before the wedding. Her grandparents and other relatives were witnesses to her baptism. There are 2 marriage records for women named Isobel Guthrie in the Dundee OPR that could be attributed to this daughter.

1697: BIRTH of SON – JOHN GUTHRIE
Dundee, Angus, Scotland on 14 Jan 1697
John was born around 14 Jan as that is his baptismal date. He was the eldest son of the family of James Guthrie & Christian Scott. He married Ann Dempster by whom he had 4 sons and 5 daughters.

1698: BIRTH of SON – JAMES GUTHRIE (1ST BARON of CRAIGIE)
Dundee, Angus, Scotland on 28 Mar 1698
Although James Guthrie was the second son of the family, he would later acquire through purchase from the Kid family more of the lands of Craigie. His father had already acquired land there. James was created as the 1st Baron of Craigie around 1728. Craigie House was the seat of the Barony and was built either by James or his son and would remain in the Guthrie family until the 20th century.

1699: BIRTH of SON – ROBERT GUTHRIE
Dundee, Angus, Scotland on 4 Jun 1699
Robert Guthrie appears to have lived in Dundee his entire life. He produced a number of daughters with his wife, and apparently a son and daughter with a mistress.

1700: BIRTH of SON – THOMAS GUTHRIE
Dundee, Angus, Scotland on 8 Oct 1700
Little is known about Thomas Guthrie except that he was born on the 8th and baptized on the 10th of October 1700 in Dundee. He died unmarried at an unknown age of unknown causes.

1702: BIRTH of SON – WILLIAM GUTHRIE
Dundee, Angus, Scotland abt. 22 Apr 1702
William’s birth/baptismal date in Dundee is all we know about him. He also died unmarried at an unknown age of unknown causes.

1703: BIRTHS of DAUGHTERS – CATHERINE & CHRISTIAN GUTHRIE
Dundee, Angus, Scotland abt. 30 Apr 1703
Twins!

1704: MUIR of CRAIGIE
On 26 February 1704 a matter regarding the Muir of Craigie was settled between the Town, James Guthrie of Craigie, and James Kyd (note: not listed as “of Craigie”), heir of George Kyd of Craigie. This may be the first indication that the lands of Craigie had passed from the Kyd family to the Guthrie family. (Warden, Alexander Johnston (1884). Angus or Forfarshire, the Land and its People, Descriptive and Historical. Dundee: Charles Alexander & Co.)

1704: BIRTH of SON – PATRICK GUTHRIE
Dundee, Angus, Scotland on 5 Oct 1704
Patrick settled in St Vigeans prior to his 1726 marriage to Agnes Foord. They moved to Arbroath and lived at Auchmithie. The records are unclear as to his trade if he was a merchant like his father. One son was a farmer and another a shipmaster. He and his wife Agnes had two sons and 3 daughters.

1706: BIRTH of SON – ALEXANDER GUTHRIE
Dundee, Angus, Scotland on 20 Mar 1706
Alexander was a merchant who married Elizabeth Moray of Perth. They raised their family in Dundee. Among their children is Charles, 1st Baron Guthrie of Taybank.

1707: BIRTH of SON – HENDRIE GUTHRIE
Dundee, Angus, Scotland on 29 Apr 1707
Hendrie is the youngest child of the family. He died unmarried, age and cause of death unknown.

1711: DEATH of JAMES GUTHRIE (MERCHANT)
James Guthrie’s date of death is listed as 1711. A more specific date of 1 April 1710 has also been found. Neither originally sourced. The death date of his wife, Christian Scott is unknown, but would have occurred in 1707 or afterward.

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