D: Alexander Guthrie & Eleanor Amis

ORIGIN THEORIES for GFG3A BRANCH D

Alexander Guthrie 1777PA/VA – 1850IN & Eleanor Amis
of Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Ohio, and Indiana

Like most Guthrie families, this one believes its origins to be in Scotland. The number of generations separating Alexander Guthrie from those ties remains unknown, but YDNA testing has provided some clues.

Two of the lineages associated with Guthrie Family Group 3A, branches A and C, have deep ties to Scotland. Branch A is associated with Angus, while Branch C hails from Ayrshire.

We don’t know when Alexander Guthrie’s line immigrated to America or the port of arrival. Some records indicate that Alexander’s birth was in Pennsylvania, others say it was Virginia.

THE GUTHRIE DNA PROJECT

Guthrie Family Group: GFG3A
Group Designation: Branch D – (The Guthries of KY/OH/IN)

Haplogroup: R-M269
Confirmed Haplogroup: R-BY12113

YDNA Matches: 1
Kit 208725 (+FF)
Alexander Guthrie/Eleanor Amis > John Guthrie/Amanda J Talbert (GGP) +more


Family Finder / Autosomal DNA Kits: 3
Kit 329263
Alexander Guthrie/Eleanor Amis > Matilda Guthrie/Thomas Carr > Andrew Carr/Mary Ann Irwin (GGP)

Kit B166603
Alexander Guthrie/Eleanor Amis > Gradison Austin Guthrie/Eliza Hollingsworth > Rebecca J Guthrie/George Fitzsimmons > George Thomas Fitzsimmons/Sophia Alice Michael (GGP)

Kit B194979
Alexander Guthrie/Eleanor Amis > John Guthrie/Lucinda MNU > Marion Peter Guthrie/Elvina Lewellen > Maude Leona Guthrie/Edward Herman Gottlieb Johann Niewald (GGP)


Findings:

Our Y-DNA Participant’s kit matches the GFG3A genetic profile. He has a Y67 marker test with 2 genetic mutations compared to Group Mode DNA. Both variances are unique to himself suggesting no patterns of inheritance at this time.

THE FAMILY of ALEXANDER GUTHRIE & ELEANOR AMIS

ALEXANDER GUTHRIE
Born: 1777
Location: Pennsylvania
Married: Eleanor Amis – 1802 in Kanawha County, Virginia, USA
Occupation: Farmer
Death: 30 Jul 1850
Location: Marion County, Indiana, USA
Burial: Bethel Cemetery, Indianapolis, Marion, Indiana, USA


ELEANOR AMIS
Born: 27 July 1778
Location: New Jersey, USA
Sons: John Guthrie, James H Guthrie, Grandson Austin Guthrie, Anderson Peters Guthrie
Daughters: Margaret Guthrie, Mary Ann Guthrie, Matilda Guthrie, Rhoda Guthrie


CHILDREN:

MARGARET GUTHRIE
c1803KY – Unknown (Before 1850)

Margaret Guthrie was named by her father as his eldest daughter. The census estimated her DOB as 1795-1800 or 1801-1810, and most likely in the narrowed range of 1801-1804. She married, produced children, and died prior to Alexander Guthrie’s death in 1850. The identity of her family is unknown to me. Are there probate records?

It is also possible that Margaret was not deceased in 1850. Alexander also bequeathed money directly to daughter Mary Ann’s heirs even though she was still living at the time.

Children: Yes, Number Unknown

Family Finder Participants: No


RHODA GUTHRIE
c1804KY – Unknown (After 1850)

Alexander Guthrie’s will names his daughter as Rhoda Moore. She is listed in order as the 2nd daughter, although not specifically identified as such. Census records list the younger daughters of Alexander and Eleanor as being born between 1801-1810. He did not mention heirs.

Note that Moore could actually be Rhoda’s given middle name. Alexander included the middle names of two other children when writing his will.

Online trees have confused this Rhoda Guthrie with Rhoda (Williams) Guthrie (born c1827) who 1st married Milton Guthrie and 2nd William W Moore on 22 Feb 1859. That couple lived in Delaware County, Indiana.

Children: Unknown

Family Finder Participants: No


MARY ANN GUTHRIE
1806KY – 1887IN

Mary Ann Guthrie was born in 1806 in Kentucky. She married Moses Reveal on 24 Mar 1833 in Marion County, Indiana. They lived in Hamilton and Boone Counties. Moses died in 1885. Mary Ann died 6 Feb 1887.

Children: 6
Reveal Sons: Alexander Anderson Reveal, George R Reveal, Willis Reveal, David Reveal
Reveal Daughters: Malinda Reveal, Rhoda Reveal

Family Finder Participants: No


MATILDA GUTHRIE
1808KY – 1850OH

Matilda Guthrie was born in Mason, Kentucky in 1808. Alternate: Ohio. She married Thomas Carr in Brown County, Ohio on 16 Jan 1832. They raised a large family in Brown County. After a visit to Indiana, Matilda contracted cholera (or smallpox) and died 21 Oct 1850 in Ripley, Brown, Ohio.

Children: 8
Carr Sons: John Carr, Alexander Carr, Andrew Carr, Nelson Carr
Carr Daughters: Mary Carr, Talitha Carr, Lewisa Carr, Joann Carr

Family Finder Participants: Yes


JOHN GUTHRIE
1810KY – Unknown (After 1880)

John Guthrie was born about 1810 in Mason County, Kentucky. Alt. OH. He was married to Lucinda (MNU) by 1832 and living in Ohio. They were still in Ohio for the birth of their second son, but by 1850 were living in Pike, Marion, Indiana where the family was listed in the census. Lucinda’s exact DOD remains unknown, but it was between 1850 – 1860. Sometime between those dates, John Guthrie remarried to Amanda J Talbert, so there are a few children whose mother is either Lucinda or Amanda. John Guthrie died sometime after the 1880 census.

Children: 16
Sons: Jonah C, Mason, Cyrus, Marion Peter, Alexander, Austin, Harvey, Harrison W, John William, Charlie Franklin
Daughters: Mathilda, Mary E, Rhoda A, Melissa, Sarah, Lucinda

Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Family Finder Participants: Yes


JAMES GUTHRIE
1812 – Unknown (After 1880)

James Guthrie was born about 1812 in Mason County, Kentucky. He was twice married. First to Highly Isaac on 18 Dec 1834 in Marion County, IN. They lived in Pike where they raised their 7 children. His wife died in 1858. James remarried 21 Mar 1867 to Elizabeth Bowman. They had an adopted daughter, Ellen McClain. James’ DOD was after the 1880 census.

Children: 8
Sons: David, Caleb Isaac, James Smith, Francis A
Daughters: Martha Eveline, Elizabeth, Louisa, Ellen McCLain (Adopted)

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Family Finder Participants: No


GRADISON AUSTIN GUTHRIE
1814KY – 1885IN

Gradison Austin Guthrie was born 24 Sep 1814 in Mason County, KY. He married Eliza Hollingsworth on 16 Mar 1837. They lived in Pike, Marion, Indiana where they owned a farm. Gradison Austin Guthrie died on 13 Jun 1885. Eliza survived him continuing to live in Marion County until her death on 9 Dec 1910.

Children: 8
Sons: Francis A, Calvin H, and 2 infant sons
Daughters: Sarah, Rebecca J, Alice, Mercy A

Y-DNA Project Participants: No
Family Finder Participants: Yes


ANDERSON PETERS GUTHRIE
1815KY – 1891OK

Anderson Peters Guthrie was born in Kentucky about 1815. He married Sarah Coble on 30 Sep 1848 in Marion County, Indiana. They lived in Wayne, Marion, Indiana until sometime after the 1880 census when they moved to Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. They were in residence there by 1890. Anderson died there in January 1891. Sarah died in May 1900, reportedly back home in Indiana.

Children: 6
Sons: George, Asa
Daughters: Mary J, Elizabeth, Ellen, Ida

Family Finder Participants: No


HISTORICAL HIGHLIGHTS

1777: BIRTH of ALEXANDER GUTHRIE
Pennsylvania or Virginia or Kentucky

There are some discrepancies in the records as to the location of Alexander Guthrie’s birth. The only census record listing a birth location is 1850: PA. The 1880 census is the first listing the birth locations of parents. Daughter Mary Ann lists both parents birth in KY. Son John’s parent’s birthplaces are left blank. Son James lists both parents as being born in KY. Son Gradison lists his father’s birthplace as VA and mother’s as NJ. Son Anderson lists the same: VA and NJ.

1778: BIRTH of ELEANOR AMIS
New Jersey on 27 July 1778

1790: US CENSUS
Location: Unknown

Alexander Guthrie would have been about 13 years old at the time of this census and presumably living with his parents.

1800: RECONSTRUCTED CENSUS OF KENTUCKY
Mason County, Kentucky, USA

A James Gutridge is listed, but no Alexander Guthrie of any variant spelling. The only Alexander Guthrie for KY is the one in Woodford, which is not this man.

1802: TAX LIST
Kanawha County, Virginia (now WV)

The county tax lists are available for 1792, 1793, 1796, 1801, 1802, 1806, 1807, and 1809. The census is available beginning in 1810.

Alexander Guthrie appears in only 1 tax lit for Kanawha County in 1802.

Categories: Person, White Males Over 16, Slaves Over 12, Slaves Over 16, Horses, Stud Horses, Ordinary Licenses, Store Licenses

1802: MARRIAGE OF ALEXANDER GUTHRIE & ELEANOR AMIS
Kanawha County, Virginia (Now WV)

A transcript of Early Marriages in Kanawha County includes:
Groom: Alex Guthrie
Bride: Elinor Runa / Runs (The original reportedly is Amis)
Marriage Year: 1802
Married By: Jas. Johnston

Abt. 1803: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – MARGARET GUTHRIE
Virginia or Kentucky, presumably

Margaret was the eldest daughter of the family. We know that she married and had children, but not the identities of those individuals. She died prior to her father.

1804: TAX LIST
Mason County, Kentucky, USA

Alexander Guthrie is listed for Mason County, Kentucky.

c1804: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – RHODA GUTHRIE
Virginia or Kentucky, presumably

There seems to be a lot of confusion about Rhoda Guthrie. Her father’s will lists her after mentioning the eldest daughter, so she is presumably the 2nd daughter. The narrowed census estimate for her DOB is 1801-1804. She is referred to as Rhoda Moore in the will. This could mean that Rhoda married a Moore, or that her middle given name was Moore. Note that Alexander wrote the middle names of two of the sons into the will as well.

This Rhoda Guthrie has been misidentified in online trees as the wife of William W Moore. His wife was actually Rhoda (Williams) Guthrie, widow of Milton Guthrie. She was born about 1827, and her 2nd marriage to William Moore took place in 1859.

1806: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – MARY ANN GUTHRIE
Kentucky, presumably

Mary Ann married when the family was living in Marion County, Indiana. Her husband was Moses Reveal. They married on 24 March 1833 and had 4 sons and 2 daughters: Alexander Anderson, George R, Willis, Malinda, David, and Rhoda.

1808: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – MATILDA GUTHRIE
Kentucky, presumably

Matilda Guthrie was born about 1808, probably in Kentucky. The 1850 census lists her entire family as being born in Ohio, which is likely an original census error. She married Thomas Carr in Brown County, Ohio on 16 January 1832. They had 4 sons and 4 daughters: John, Alexander, Andrew, Mary, Talitha, Nelson, Lewisa, and Joann. Matilda died of cholera on 21 October 1850 after a visit to Indiana. Thomas died on 22 Feb 1884.

1810: BIRTH of SON – JOHN GUTHRIE
Mason County, Kentucky, USA

John Guthrie was born in 1810 in Kentucky prior to the 1810 census. He married twice: Lucinda (MNU) and Amanda Talbert. He was father to 16 children. The family lived in Indiana, Missouri, Illinois, and Arkansas.

1810: US CENSUS
Mason, Mason County, Kentucky, USA

ALEXANDER GUTTERY HOUSEHOLD:
1M & 1F 26-44, 1M & 1F 10-15, 1M & 4F <10.

1812: BIRTH of SON – JAMES GUTHRIE
Mason County, Kentucky, USA

James Guthrie was born in 1812 in Mason County, Kentucky. The family was living in Mario County, Indiana at the time of his marriage to Highly Isaac on 18 Dec 1834. They were parents to Martha Eveline ‘Patsy’, David, Caleb Isaac, Elizabeth, James Smith, Louisa, and Francis A. Guthrie. His wife died in 1858 and James eventually remarried to Elizabeth Bowman on 21 March 1867. They had one adopted daughter, Ellen McClain.

1814: BIRTH of GRADISON AUSTIN GUTHRIE
Mason County, Kentucky, USA on 24 Sep 1814

Gradison Austin Guthrie married Eliza Hollingsworth on 16 March 1837 in Marion County, Indiana. Their children were Sarah, Francis A, Rebecca, Alice, Mercy, Calvin, and 2 sons who died in infancy. They lived in Pike and later New Augusta, Marion, Indiana.

1815: BIRTH of ANDERSON PETERS GUTHRIE
Kentucky, USA

Anderson married Sarah Coble on 30 Sep 1848 in Marion County, Indiana. They lived in Wayne where they raised their children Mary J, Elizabeth, George, Asa, Ellen, and Ida. In 1890, they moved to Oklahoma.

1820: US CENSUS
Brown County, Ohio, USA

ALEXANDER GUTREY HOUSEHOLD:
1M 45+, 1F 26-44, 2F 16-25, 1M&2F 10-15, 4M<10.

1830: US CENSUS
Brown County, Ohio, USA

ALEXANDER GUTHRIE HOUSEHOLD:
1M&1F 50-59, 1M&2F 20-29, 3M 15-19, 1M 10-14.

1840: US CENSUS
Marion County, Indiana, USA

ALEXANDER GUTHERY HOUSEHOLD:
1M & 1F 60-69, 1M 20-29

1850: US CENSUS
Pike, Marion County, Indiana, USA

Guthrie Household:
Eleanor Guthrie 72 New Jersey
Alexandre Guthrie 72 Pennsylvania farmer 800 real estate

The household listed next is that of Austin Guthrie. The James Guthrie household is listed on the next page.

Austin Guthrie 36 farmer Kentucky 1000 real estate
Elisa 32 Ohio
Sarah 10 Indiana
Rebecca 6 Indiana
Alice 3 Indiana

James Guthrie 40 farmer Kentucky
Hila 28 Virginia
Patsy 15 Indiana
David 13 Indiana
Isaac 11 Indiana
Elisabeth 8 Indiana
Smith 6 Indiana
Louisa 4 Indiana
Francis A 8/12 Indiana

1850: DEATH of ALEXANDER GUTHRIE
Marion County, Indiana USA on 30 July 1850

Alexander’s last will & testament was recorded 24 Aug 1850. His intention within the will was to provide his sons and daughters an equal inheritance in either land or cash. Property and deeds were already distributed to them. He made the following bequests:
1. To his son JOHN – 80 acres
2. To son JAMES – 80 acres
3. To son GRANDISON AUSTIN – 50 acres quality equal to above
4. To son ANDERSON PETERS – 120 acres about equal in quality to above
5. Wife shall have use of all personal property and profits from farm during her life. At death land and property to be sold and divided.
6. Oldest daughter’s heirs – 100 dollars (Margaret)
7. Daughter Rhoda Moore – property (already given) – 50 dollars
8. Daughter Mary Ann’s heirs – 100 dollars
9. Daughter Matilda – 100 dollars
Amounts to daughters to be arranges so they are equal in value to what the sons received in land. Remaining balance between children:
JOHN, JAMES, GRANDISON AUSTIN, ANDERSON PETERS, RHODA, MARGARET’s heirs.

See Alexander’s Gallery for a scan and transcription of full text.

1868: DEATH of ELEANOR (AMIS) GUTHRIE
Pike, Marion County, Indiana, USA on 11 April 1868

Alexander and Ellennor are buried in Bethel Cemetery in Indianapolis, Marion, Indiana, USA.

11 Comments »

  1. Thanks! At genealogytrails.com, I found Kanawha records including a complete list for 1801 listing Robert, John, and James Guthrie, but only the ‘H’ surnames for 1802 and beyond. Do you have the details?

    I also found the marriage record for Alex Guthrie & Elinor ‘Runa’ under marriages by Jas. Johnston for the year 1802. If I recall, the original document is where the ‘Amis’ surname is gleaned. The image I found at Family Search is simply a typed transcript of the marriage list rather than an original, which lists the ‘Runs’ surname.

    This 1802 date would also narrow down the potential birth range for eldest daughter, Margaret, presuming she was born after their marriage.

    Like

  2. Yes, for the 1802 list try the following website: http://www.binnsgenealogy.com/VirginiaTaxListCensuses/Kanawha/1802Personal/08.jpg

    So there is no census from 1790 or 1800 for the area, but there are tax lists. Although Kanawha County was founded in 1789, the earliest Kanawha Personal Property Tax (PPT) lists available are from 1792 and 1793. No tax lists are available for 1794 and 1795. There is a list from 1796 but no tax lists are available for 1797-1800. There are lists from 1801 and 1802, but no tax lists are available for 1803-1805. There are lists from 1806 and 1807 and then again in 1809. Census records are available for 1810 and beyond.
    I did not find anyone with the last name of ‘Guthrie’ in the 1792 tax list, or the 1793 or 1796 tax list. I had success in 1801 and 1802. I can’t find the other tax lists online so I will need to go to the library. The Guthries may have come to Kanawha County after the 1796 tax list was prepared but before the 1801 list was prepared.

    I have a working theory that perhaps Alexander, James, and Robert were sons of John Guthrie.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Rachelle,
      Have you identified a JOHN GUTHRIE whom you believe is the man listed in the 1801 Tax Record?

      A biography for James Guthrie in ‘Sissonville: A Time to Remember’ identified his parents as Andrew and Mary (Robinson) Guthrie. They also had a son named Alexander Guthrie who was born in 1772. There is speculation that he may be the Alexander Guthrie who m. Eleanor Amis, but without any other evidence to connect them.

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  3. Hi – I checked at the library today – Alexander is only in 1802. Robert drops out of the tax lists after 1811. John drops out after 1819. Only James remains until the 1850 census.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. I am aware of the biography in “Sissonville….” and have long been suspicious of the information because there are no sources and I have never found an Andrew Guthrie in Kanawha. I think what happened is that someone found a christening record in Scotland for a man who had sons named James and Alexander and felt like that was enough to go on. However, that simply does not fit with the evidence in Kanawha County. The very first reference I have been able to find in Kanawha County to anyone with the last name of Guthrie is John Guthrie who was involved in a court case in 1800, John Gutherie v. Nicholas Chenworth for the destruction of timber and trespassing. It is only John in the 1801 tax list who has another male living with him (probably Alexander who is not mentioned in 1801 but is mentioned in 1802) and he is the only one of the males listed (John, James, and Robert) who owns a horse. From later census records, we can identify James, Robert, and Alexander as having young families. So I think John is the padre.
    Also, In the 1850 census, Alexander is identified as having been born in Pennsylvania, and James as having been born in Maryland. No mention is made of Scotland. In the 1880 census, children of James reported James’ birthplace as being Virginia and West Virginia.
    Since I think the family was in Kanawha already by 1800, and this census was lost, I don’t think we will find them in the 1800 census. However, I do not believe the family was living in the area in 1790, so I think we have a shot at perhaps finding them in the 1790 census, probably in Pennsylvania.
    I could go back into the records in Scotland and check to see if said Andrew Guthrie ever left Scotland. I am pretty sure what I will find.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. As far as I can tell, there is no evidence that Andrew Guthrie ever left Scotland. I cannot identify a death record for him. If he did leave Scotland, there is also no evidence that he was ever in the Kanawha County area either before or after its formation. Personally, I think he stayed in Scotland. The only way to prove/disprove the Sissonville bio data is YDNA testing of Guthrie men who descend from one of the lineages associated with Andrew Guthrie’s ancestral line, which goes Thomas Guthrie/Janet Doig > David Guthrie/Janet Clark > Andrew Guthrie/Mary Robinson. For now, these folks are attached to the James Guthrie/Elizabeth Casdorph line as theoretical ancestors pending additional testing. I think it is still a valid question to ask how the name Andrew Guthrie became associated with the Sissonville bio. There are plenty of other potential parents with sons named James Guthrie born about the same time, so pulling a name out of a hat and looking for an associated record seems extreme, but it has certainly happened before.

    I like your theory about John Guthrie. Keep in mind that there are other instances of extended family moving from one place to another together, so while I agree that John is most likely closely related to James, Alexander, and Robert, the Tax Records cannot prove the three were his sons. That seems the most obvious relationship, but John could potentially be an uncle or older brother to one or all. The most likely one of the three to be his son appears to be Alexander. I agree that he is likely the 2nd male identified in the 1801 tax list since he appears as a taxable adult the next year. The Tax Data is the first time I have seen all three of these men in the same place at the same time.

    Genetically Related Lineages for GFG3A:
    Branch A: Thomas Guthrie/Janet Doig (If Sissonville data is accurate) or James Guthrie/Elizabeth Casdorph (One of the three potential sons/relations of John Guthrie)
    Branch B: Robert Guthrie/Esther Giles – Robert is theorized to be a son of Francis Guthrie of PA. Robert moved to Maryland and then Virginia. He had a son named John Guthrie, who might be a good candidate to be the John Guthrie of these tax records.
    Branch C: William Guthrie & Ann Hunter/Jacobina McClure of Ayrshire, Scotland. William & Ann also had a son names John born 1790. No further data on him at this time. This line goes back to Scotland and is genetically confirmed to belong to GFG3A.
    Branch D: Alexander Guthrie/Eleanor Amis (One of the three potential sons/relations of John Guthrie)
    Branch E: Robert Guthrie/Frances Fowler (One of the three potential sons/relations of John Guthrie)

    Like

  6. By the way, I think there is good evidence that Alexander had a 5th son. The 1820 and the 1830 census indicate five, not four, males. Additionally, Alexander occasionally is referred to as “Alexander Senior,” which was normally only done after that man’s child of the same name reached adulthood. For example, see the deed dated 1 December 1837 by Alexander Guthrie Senior and Eleanor Guthrie his wife of Marion County, Indiana, to Cyrus Acres for $950, a parcel of land on Eagle Creek. I think he probably had a son, Alexander Junior, born about 1817, who died leaving no heirs.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Sorry to post again – just a comment about Rhoda above – the death certificate of George Marshall of Brown County, Indiana, lists his father as John Marshall and his mother as Rhoda Guthrie. Dated 23 August 1901.

    Liked by 1 person

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