A: John Guthrie & Betty Logan
ORIGIN THEORIES for GFG7 – BRANCH A
For those of you who have not yet discovered it, the Scotland’s People website is a fantastic resource containing scans of Old Parish Records (Before 1855), Statutory Registers (After 1855), Census Records, Wills and Estate data and more. Statutory Registers usually contain relationship data. Prior to that, the Old Parish Records may or may not provide familial connections depending upon the county and timeframe you’re searching.
Beginning with the most recent generation, we can collect relationship data from the Statutory Registers and Census Records back to the point where it becomes necessary to start analyzing ‘parent options’ by looking at a list of births in the same region and selecting the most likely candidates.
The Guthrie line of Participant 230119, which has been in Australia for several generations, conclusively leads to Charles Guthrie, a brewer born in Ayrshire, Scotland in 1789 to parents John Guthrie and Betty Logan.
Examination of birth and baptismal records for John and Betty’s children reveal that John Guthrie was known as John Guthrie Junr. indicating that his father was also named John Guthrie.
Further clues about John Guthrie Sr’s birth maybe be found in the records of Ayrshire, Scotland.
The discovery of this branch of GFG7 also provides the group’s American branch with evidence of its pre-immigration origins and a region within Scotland to focus its research: Ayrshire.
THE GUTHRIE DNA PROJECT
Guthrie Family Group: GFG7
Group Designation: Branch A – (The Guthries of Ayrshire)
Confirmed Haplogroup: R-M512
YDNA Matches: 1
John Guthrie/Spouse UNK > John Guthrie/Elizabeth ‘Betty’ Logan > Charles Guthrie/Mary Miller > Hugh Miller Guthrie/Jessie Thomson > Wemyss Manley Guthrie/Annie Hutchinson (GGP) +more
Family Finder / Autosomal DNA Kits: 1
John Guthrie/Spouse UNK > John Guthrie/Elizabeth ‘Betty’ Logan > Charles Guthrie/Agnes Smith > William Smith Guthrie/Emily Conder > William Doon Guthrie/Barbara Louise Morrow (GGP) +more
THE FAMILY of JOHN GUTHRIE & BETTY LOGAN
Born: 15 Nov 1766
Location: Monkton and Prestwick, Ayrshire, Scotland
Marriage: 1780s, presumably in Ayrshire
Occupation: Day Laborer
Died: Unknown, After 1789 (Possibly the flesher who died 20 Nov 1817)
Location: Unknown, probably Ayrshire, Scotland
Buried: Unknown, probably Ayrshire, Scotland
ELIZABETH ‘BETTY’ LOGAN
Born: Unknown, probably 1760s
Location: Unknown, presumably in Ayrshire
Sons: Charles Guthrie (1789)
Daughters: Margaret Guthrie (1786), Agnes Guthrie (1786), Betty Guthrie (1788)
Died: Unknown, After 1789
Location: Unknown, probably Ayrshire, Scotland
Buried: Unknown, probably Ayrshire, Scotland
Margaret Guthrie was born on 16 September and baptized on 17 September 1786 at St Quivox and Newton, Ayrshire, Scotland. No further data.
Agnes Guthrie, twin to Margaret, was born on 16 September and baptized on 17 September 1786 at St Quivox and Newton, Ayrshire, Scotland. She had a son out of wedlock with Robert Milwain. Agnes died in Girvan, Ayrshire, Scotland at the age of 71 at Vicarton on 11 February 1856. COD: Old age and frailty. Her parents were listed as John Guthrie, farmer, and Elizabeth Logan.
Milwain Sons: Charles Milwain (1807)
Milwain Daughters: None
Family Finder Participants: None
“Betty Guthrie daughter lawful to John Guthrie Junr. vennal of Prestick and Betty Logan his spouse was born 22 and baptized 27th April 1788.” No further data found.
“Chas. son lawful to John Guthrie day laborer in vennal of Prestick and Betty his spouse was born 31st Octr. and baptized on the 1st Novr. 1789.”
Charles married Mary Miller in Ayrshire when he was about 21 years of age. He worked with malts as a brewer. He and Mary were parents to at least 5 sons and 2 daughters, although 1 son and 1 daughter died at birth or in infancy. Mary (Miller) Guthrie died 28 April 1828. Two of the surviving 4 sons and the daughter moved to Australia.
Charles Guthrie married for a second time on 2 December 1831 in Ayrshire, Scotland to Agnes Smith. The marriage was also recorded 16 Dec 1831 in Auchinleck, Ayrshire, Scotland. The couple had 2 sons.
On 1 May 1840, Charles Guthrie died of consumption, aged 50. Agnes survived him by only 2 years. She died 29 Nov 1842 leaving her two young sons orphaned. Both removed to Victoria, Australia.
Sons: John Guthrie (1817), James Miller Guthrie (1818), Stillborn Son (1820), Charles Guthrie (1821), Hugh Miller Guthrie (1823), and Mary Miller Guthrie (1824), William Smith Guthrie (1836)
Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Family Finder Participants: Yes
About 1736: BIRTH of JOHN GUTHRIE, SR.
This is a rough estimate for the date of birth of John Guthrie Jr’s father. John Junior was born in 1766.
There are 5 candidates born between 1726-1746 in Ayrshire:
John Gottray son of John Gottray on 21 June 1730 in Dalmellington
John Guthrie son of John Guthrie on 5 January 1731 in Craigie
John Guthrie son of James Guthrie on 28 March 1731 in Loudon
John Guttrie son of John Guttrie on 15 July 1734 in Monkton and Prestwick
John Guthrie son of John Guthrie on 16 Jan 1738 in Craigie
It appears there is a significant chance that John is the son of a man named John. This particular family also has established connections in Prestwick, increasing the likelihood that John Guttrie born on 15 July 1734 is this man.
Newton, Ayrshire, Scotland
John worked as a wright (carpenter) in Newton, Ayrshire, Scotland in 1766 at the time of his son’s birth.
1766: BIRTH of JOHN GUTHRIE, JR.
Monkton and Prestwick, Ayrshire, Scotland on 15 November 1766
John Guthrie, lawful son to John Guthrie, wright in Newton was born 15 November 1766 years.
About 1785: MARRIAGE of JOHN GUTHRIE & BETTY LOGAN
Ayrshire, Scotland, presumably
No marriage record found. The couple’s children are described as lawful and they in turn as spouses, so a legal marriage is presumed.
1786: BIRTH of TWIN DAUGHTERS – MARGARET and AGNES GUTHRIE
St. Quivox, Ayrshire, Scotland on 16 September 1786
The birth (16th) and baptism (17th) of Margaret and Agnes Guthrie, daughters of John Guthrie and Betty Logan were recorded in the St Quivox Register.
1788: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – BETTY GUTHRIE
Prestwick, Ayrshire, Scotland on 22 April 1788
Betty Guthrie daughter lawful to John Guthrie Junr. in Vennal of Prestwick and Betty Logan his spouse was born 22 and baptized 27th April 1788.
1789: BIRTH of SON – CHARLES GUTHRIE
Prestwick, Ayrshire, Scotland on 31 October 1789
Chas. son lawful to John Guthrie day laborer in Vennal of Prestwick and Betty his spouse was born on 31st Oct and baptized on 1st Nov 1789.
1807: BIRTH of GRANDSON – CHARLES MILWAIN
Coylton, Ayrshire, Scotland on 2 April 1807
“September 12th 1807, Agnes Guthrie had a natural child whose father she says is Robert Milwain (born 2nd April last) baptized, named Charles Milwain.”
1810: MARRIAGE of CHARLES GUTHRIE & MARY MILLER
1817: BIRTH of GRANDSON – JOHN GUTHRIE
Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland
John Guthrie was born in Ayr on 20 January 1817. He died in Panshanger, Longford, Tasmania, Australia on 22 March 1870.
At the age of 20, John Guthrie was appointed to Customs Tasmania by the Imperial Government. He set sail from Liverpool, England on the ship ‘Sultana bound for VDL Australia. After a delay during the journey, and a change of vessel, he arrived in Melbourne to assume his duties as Chief Clerk in the Customs Department on 24 November 1848.
John married Madeline Dubrelle Weston on 28 March 1850 at St Peter’s Church in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. They were parents to 8 children: Charles Weston (1851), Edward Weston (1852), William Clark (1854), Madeline Anne (1856), John Miller (1858), Jessie (1860), Weston (1863) and Hugh Crichton (1867).
1818: BIRTH of GRANDSON – JAMES MILLER GUTHRIE
Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland
James Miller Guthrie was born on 26 July 1818 in Ayr and died there on 24 October 1841 at the age of 23. “James Guthrie son of the late Charles Guthrie.” COD: Consumption.
James was still young at his death, but he was recently married. There is an 1841 census entry for Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland for a man of 20 years of age, which is close. The household includes:
Mary Orr 55 (possibly a remarried Mary (Miller) Guthrie)
Jean Clerk 15
James Guthrie 20
Henretta Guthrie 20
Charles Guthrie 6 mo.
A marriage is recorded in Ayr for 8 Aug 1840 for James Guthrie and Henrietta Dalrymple.
Son Charles Guthrie’s marriage record in Victoria, Australia confirms his parents’ identities as “James Miller Guthrie” and “Henrietta Dalrymple”. Charles married his first cousin, Madeline Anne Guthrie, daughter of John Guthrie & Madeline Weston (above).
1820: DELIVERY of STILLBORN GRANDSON
Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland on 11 April 1820
Mary (Miller) Guthrie was delivered of a stillborn son on 11 April 1820.
1821: BIRTH of GRANDSON – CHARLES GUTHRIE
Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland on 8 April 1821
“Guthrie, Charles, lawful daughter of Charles Guthrie, maltster & Mary Miller, spouses, was born 8th and baptized 15th April 1821 by the Rev Mr Nichol.”
The original record clearly lists ‘daughter’ indicating an error in the documentation. Charles Guthrie was male, married, and produced seven children: Thomas Cochrane (1849), Mary Miller (1852), Charles (1854), John Alexander (1857), Robert Angus (1860), Charles (1861), and Hugh Miller (1862).
He assumed his father’s trade as a brewer, and died on 19 July 1891 in Gourock, Renfrewshire, Scotland. “Charles Guthrie, retired brewer, widower of Margaret Cochrane, died 930PM at Tynron, Broomberry Drive, Gourock, 71yrs, Parents: Charles Guthrie, brewer, and Mary Miller, both deceased, COD: Cardiac Disease, Informant: Son.
1823: BIRTH of GRANDSON – HUGH MILLER GUTHRIE
Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland on 19 January 1823
Hugh Miller Guthrie was born in Ayr on 19 January 1823 and baptized there on the same day. He was living at High Street with his widowed stepmother, Agnes, and his siblings during the 1841 census. His occupation was listed as a clerk.
He arrived in Hobart Town, Tasmania, Australia aboard the ship ‘Haidee’ from London on 30 August 1842. He worked in William’s Town, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia as a Landing Waiter and Tide Surveyor. By 27 November 1851, Hugh was working as a government Emigration Officer at Melbourne. By 1873 he was appointed as the Collector of Customs.
Hugh married Jessie Thompson in Lanceston, Tasmania, Australia on 29 April 1857. They had 11 children: Charles (1858), Mary Miller (1860), Constance Jessie (1862), Jessie (1864), Hugh Miller (1867), Norman Stuart (1869), Lindsay (1871), Quentin Young (1873), Alice Hope (1874), Wemyss Manley (1877), and Agnes Madeline (1880).
Hugh Miller Guthrie died on 5 September 1888 on board the HMS Rosetta near Colombo, Western Sri Lanka, Sri Lanka.
1824: BIRTH of GRANDDAUGHTER – MARY GUTHRIE
Ayrshire, Scotland on 16 December 1824
Mary, lawful daughter of Charles Guthrie, maltster, and Mary Miller, spouses, was born 16th December 1824 and baptized 19th by the Rev. Mr Nichol.
Mary Miller Guthrie married in Melbourne, Australia on 28 March 1850 to John Wemyss Manley. They had one son, Thomas Wemyss Manley who died in infancy in 1852. Mary was only 28 at her death on 18 Nov 1853. She died at the home of her brother, Hugh Miller Guthrie.
1828: DEATH of DAUGHTER-IN-LAW – MARY (MILLER) GUTHRIE
Ayrshire, Scotland on 25 April 1828
Died 25th, Buried 29th, Mary Miller, wife of Chas. Guthrie, maltster, 39, COD: mortification
1831: MARRIAGE (2nd) of SON – CHARLES GUTHRIE
Ayrshire, Scotland on 2 December 1831
“Charles Guthrie, maltster, in Ayr and Agnes Smith in Auchinleck gave in their names to be proclaimed and after proclamation they were married by the Rev Mr Boyd.” The marriage was also recorded in Auchinleck on 16 Dec 1831. They had 1 son: William Smith Guthrie.
1836: BIRTH of GRANDSON – WILLIAM SMITH GUTHRIE
Ayrshire, Scotland on 25 Oct 1836
William Smith Guthrie was born 25 Oct and baptized on 10 Nov 1836. He was listed as a 5 year old in the 1841 Ayrshire census with his widowed mother and siblings. His mother died the following year. The family moved to Australia.
William married Emily Conder in Kilmore, Victoria, Australia in 1858. They were parents to 8 children: Ellen (1858), Alan (1860), Annie (1860), Mary Eliza (1862), Charles Patton (1864), William Down (1866), Sarah (1868), and Emily.
He died in Boolarra, Victoria, Australia in June of 1887. Probate on 22 Aug 1887.
1840: DEATH of SON – CHARLES GUTHRIE
Ayr, Ayrshire, Scotland on 1 May 1840
Charles Guthrie, brewer, aged 50, COD: Consumption