A: Thomas Guthrie & Jean Duncan

ORIGIN THEORIES for GFG9 – BRANCH A

Thomas Guthrie 1732SCT-1797SC & Jean Duncan
of Orkney, Scotland and Abbeville County, South Carolina, USA

Guthrie Family Group 9 is a small genetic group. There are two separate American immigrations, one from the Orkney Islands in Scotland in 1774 (Branch A) and the other from Ireland nearly a century later. This tells us that the most likely location of their Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA) is back in Scotland in the 1700s.

Although Thomas Guthrie & his wife Jean were living in Stromness, Orkney, Scotland at the time they decided to immigrate to America, it was not the location they were living at the time of their marriage. Their marriage contract was dated 27 Jul 1754 in Botriphnie, Banffshire, Scotland, and their marriage record of 6 August 1754, also in Botriphnie, indicates they were both of that parish.

There are only 2 Thomas Guthrie births recorded in the OPR of Banff between 1700-1760, both to the same parents in Keith: Thomas Guthrie and Margaret Dallachy 26 Apr 1745 and again 14 Jan 1747. Neither of these is likely to be this Thomas Guthrie.

There are no Thomas Guthrie births recorded in the OPR for Orkney during the same period.

There are 20 OPR births/baptisms recorded in Scotland for infants named Thomas Guthrie between 1700-1760. If that is narrowed closer to the date listed for this Thomas 1730-1735, there are 3 sets of prospective parents: James Guthrie & (Not Listed) 17 Jan 1731 in Forteviot
David Guthrie & Isobell Ramsay 31 July 1734 in Mains & Strathmartine
Francis Guthrie & (Not Listed) 19 Nov 1732 in Murroes

There is actually another couple in Botriphine, Banffshire, Scotland with the names Thomas Guthrie and Janet Duncan who’s children were born in Botriphine in the 1720s and 1730s, a key timeframe for this Thomas Guthrie. Potential candidates, but no OPR birth record found showing them with a son named Thomas.

THE GUTHRIE DNA PROJECT

Guthrie Family Group: GFG9
Group Designation: Branch A – (The Guthries of Orkney, Scotland)

Haplogroup: R-M269
Confirmed Haplogroup: R-M269

YDNA Matches: 1
Kit 170986
Thomas Guthrie/Jean Duncan > John Guthrie/Jean Norwood > Samuel Guthrie/Nancy MNU > Abraham Guthrie/Mary Ann Sherouse (GGP) +more


Family Finder / Autosomal DNA Kits: 9

Kit 146754
Thomas Guthrie/Jean Duncan > John Guthrie/Jean Norwood > Samuel Guthrie/Nancy MNU > Jasper Guthery/Amelia Ann Link > Amelia Ann Guthrie/William Henry Boone (GGP)

Kit 148470
Thomas Guthrie/Jean Duncan > John Guthrie/Jean Norwood > John Lee Guthrie/Elizabeth Sweat > Amanda M Guthrie/Rowam Pafford > Lenora Wealthy Afford/Martin Samuel Corbitt > Levia Jane Corbitt/Timothy Gordon Bennett (GGP)

Kit 295921
Thomas Guthrie/Jean Duncan > John Guthrie/Jean Norwood > John Lee Guthrie/Elizabeth Sweat > Samuel Guthrie/Martha Newborn > Archibald Guthrie/Harty Ann Sirmans > Linnie Guthrie/A Jesse Harrell (GGP)

Kit 408029
Thomas Guthrie/Jean Duncan > Margaret Guthrie/James Thompson > Robert Thompson/Rhoda Ann Grubbs > Adam Crumpton Thompson/Lucinda Rollins > John Cassie Thompson/Emma King (GGP)

Kit B19029
Thomas Guthrie/Jean Duncan > John Guthrie/Jean Norwood > John Lee Guthrie/Elizabeth Sweat > William James Guthrie/Sarah Elizabeth Sanders > Rowena Guthrie/Marshall Martin Lafayette Jewell Corbitt > Keziah Corbitt/Henry Woodard (GGP)

Kit B394429
Thomas Guthrie/Jean Duncan > John Guthrie/Jean Norwood > John Lee Guthrie/Elizabeth Sweat > Samuel Guthrie/Martha Newbern > James Berrien Guthrie/Sarah Jane Register (GGP)

Kit B484262
Thomas Guthrie/Jean Duncan > John Guthrie/Jean Norwood > John Lee Guthrie/Elizabeth Sweat > Samuel Guthrie/Martha Newbern > Samuel Fester Guthrie/Elizabeth Sutton > James Lester Guthrie/Pheriba Melissa Ford (GGP)

Kit N14340
Thomas Guthrie/Jean Duncan > John Guthrie/Jean Norwood > John Lee Guthrie/Elizabeth Sweat > Narissus Guthrie/Unidentified MNU > Henry Sanford Guthrie/Cora Carmichael (GGP)

Kit N117590
Thomas Guthrie/Jean Duncan > John Guthrie/Jean Norwood > Samuel Guthrie/Nancy MNU > Abraham Guthrie/Mary Ann Sherouse > Jasper ‘Jack’ S Guthrie/Rebecca E Nichols > Mary Louann Guthrie/William David Hunter > Mary Ethel Hunter/James Falana > Catherine E Falana/Robert Lawson Johnson (GGP)


Findings:

Due to the small size of the group there is not a lot of Y-DNA data for comparison.

There are currently 3 kits:
Kit 170986 – Y37 marker test – Branch A
Kit N71610 – Y12 marker test – Branch B
Kit 488547 – Y37 marker test – Branch A (Mismatch)

None of the Kits match one of our established Guthrie Family Groups.

Since both Branches A and B are established to be from different lineages, yet have a basic Y-DNA match, that is inferred to be the primary Y-DNA profile for the group. Kit488547’s lineage is a subset of the Branch A line, test has a different genetic profile. It is therefore the result of a more recent adoption or paternal event in that line.

Currently, Kit 170986 has 20 matches at the Y-37 marker level. None of them to men of the Guthrie surname. The two most common surnames found on the list are Padgett (5) and Green (5). The Padgetts trace their line back to William Henry Padgett b1782SC-1843AL. The Greens list Levi Green b1804C. Another surname match is Boatwright (2).

We need more Y-DNA Participants who descend from Thomas Guthrie & Jean Duncan in order to see patterns, but it appears that the group may be the result of a paternal event or adoption pre-immigration in Scotland, as well as post-immigration.

THE FAMILY of THOMAS GUTHRIE & JEAN DUNCAN

THOMAS GUTHRIE
Born: About 1732
Location: Scotland, possibly Botriphne, Banffshire
Married: Jean Duncan on 6 August 1754 in Botriphne, Banffshire, Scotland
Occupation: Farmer
Died: 1797
Location: Abbeville, South Carolina, USA
Buried: Unknown, presumably Abbeville, South Carolina, USA


JEAN DUNCAN
Born: About 1734
Location: Scotland, possibly Botriphne, Banffshire
Sons: Adam Guthrie (1761), Thomas Guthrie (1762), John Guthrie (1764)
Daughters: Margaret Guthrie (1756), Helen Guthrie (1757), Jean Guthrie (1770), Jennet Guthrie (1774), Alinor Guthrie (1774)
Died: Unknown, after 1774
Location: Unknown, presumably GA or SC
Buried: Unknown


CHILDREN:

MARGARET GUTHRIE
1756SCT-After1774

According to immigration documents, Margaret Guthrie was 18 years old in 1774 when she arrived in Savannah, Georgia, estimating her DOB to be in 1756. There is no record of her birth found in the OPR for Scotland between 1754-1758.

Margaret is listed in her father Thomas Guthrie’s 1797 will as “Margaret Thompson” indicating her marriage to a man of the Thompson surname. This might be the Margaret Thompson married to James Thompson with a son named Robert Thompson 1785SC-1838AL. Some dates and locations are a little sketchy and need some research.


HELEN GUTHRIE
1757SCT-a1797

Helen Guthrie is listed as being 17 in 1774 when her family immigrated from Orkney to Savannah, Georgia. Helen was not listed in her father’s 1797 will, and so is presumed dead prior to that date. No further data.


ADAM GUTHRIE
1761SCT-a1797

Unlike many of Thomas and Jean (Duncan) Guthrie’s children, there is an OPR baptismal record for son Adam Guthrie. He was baptized on 19 April 1761 in Sandwick, Orkney, Scotland.

Baptized ADAM lawful son to THOMAS GUTHRIE and JEAN DUNCAN witnesses ROBERT IRVING and several others.

Adam Guthrie was 14 years old when he arrived in Savannah, Georgia in 1774. He was not named in his father’s 1797 will, and so is presumed to be dead by that date.

Online trees often mistake this Adam Guthrie with the Adam Guthrie of Ireland who married Mary Anderson and died in Cumberland, KY in 1827. That line has yet to be Y-DNA tested, however, dates and locations rule out a match.


THOMAS GUTHRIE
1762SCT-a1797

Thomas Guthrie was 13 years old upon his arrival in America aboard the ship ‘Marlborough’. He is not listed in his father’s 1797 will and is therefore presumed to be dead by that date. No further data.


JOHN GUTHRIE
1764SCT-After1830SC

John Guthrie was 10 years old upon arriving in Savannah, Georgia from Scotland on the ship ‘Marlborough’.

John Guthrie married in Abbeville, South Carolina to a woman known in online trees as “Jean Norwood”, however there is a possible discrepancy with information about her identity. The origin of the confusion is found in the will of Capt. John Norwood who names one of his daughters as Jean Guthrie. The husband of Jean Guthrie could be either this John Guthrie (GFG9) or Robert Guthrie (GFG13). The latter’s wife Jean Norwood is frequently (erroneously) documented as Martha Jane Norwood. The latter’s family have letters of correspondence between the Guthrie and Norwood families of Giles County, TN. So, it appears as though GFG13 has a legitimate claim to a Guthrie-Norwood connection, assuming there is only 1 woman named Jane/Jean Norwood. If there are 2 women by the same surname, they married men from two different Guthrie Family Groups in Abbeville, South Carolina.

Census records for the John Guthrie household in Abbeville suggest that he was married to a woman born about 1775. They had at least 6 sons and 2 daughters born between 1794-1811.

One ‘son’ found listed in trees is Aaron Guthrie, but his DOB was 1788, too early to be born to John’s wife if she was born about 1775. Other than a SC connection, there is no history known to indicate a connection to this John Guthrie.

Other sons listed to John Guthrie include: Samuel Guthrie (1794), who is the ancestor of our Y-DNA participant, and John Lee Guthrie (1795), who is the ancestor common to the Autosomal DNA participants. The other children remain unidentified.

Honestly, I have not found any documentation to link either Samuel Guthrie or John Lee Guthrie to a father named John Guthrie from Abbeville. This is why we need some Y-DNA from John Lee Guthrie’s line. I can tell you that John Lee Guthrie who married Elizabeth Sweat and lived in Lowndes, GA is not the son of GFG13 – Robert Guthrie & Jane/Jean Norwood of Giles County, TN. Their eldest son, named John, lived in Graves County, KY, a location named in Court Documents associated with the Giles County, TN family.

Children: 8
Sons: Samuel Guthrie (1794), John Lee Guthrie (1795), Son (b1801-1804), Son (b1801-1810), Son (b1801-1810), Son (b1811-1820)
Daughters: Daughter (b1801-1810), Daughter (b1801-1810)

Y-DNA Project Participants: Yes
Family Finder Participants: Yes


JEAN GUTHRIE
1770SCT-1802SC

Jean Guthrie was only 4 years old during the journey from Scotland to Georgia. She grew up in Georgia and South Carolina. Jean was married to John Houston about 1795 in Abbevile and was named as ‘Jean Houston’ in her father’s 1797 will. She died in 1802. John Houston was 45 or older in 1800, his wife listed as 26-44 (1756-1774). They are enumerated with 11 children and 1 slave. Jean may have been John’s second wife since the older 2 females aged 16-25 are probably not her children. If the remainder aged 0 to 15 are inferred to be her children, she would be mother to 9. Identities not known. Jean reportedly died about 1803.

Children: 9

Family Finder Participants: No


JENNET GUTHRIE
1774SCT-After 1797

Jennet Guthrie was only 4 months old at the time of her arrival in America. No OPR birth or baptism data found. She appears to be unmarried at the time of her father’s will. No further data.


ALINOR GUTHRIE
After 1774-After 1797

Alinor was born in America sometimes after 1774, likely in either GA or SC. She was still unmarried in 1797 when her father Thomas Guthrie named her in his will. No further data.

HISTORICAL HIGHLIGHTS

About 1732: BIRTH of THOMAS GUTHRIE
Scotland

The year comes from the Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, which indicates Thomas Guthrie was 42 in 1774 upon his arrival in America.

His exact birthplace is unknown, but he was a residence of Botriphnie, Banffshire, Scotland upon his marriage to Jean Duncan.

An examination of OPR documents in Scotland for years close to 1732 gives us three prospected records:
James Guthrie & (Not Listed) 17 Jan 1731 in Forteviot
Francis Guthrie & (Not Listed) 19 Nov 1732 in Murroes
David Guthrie & Isobell Ramsay 31 July 1734 in Mains & Strathmartine

About 1734: BIRTH of JEAN DUNCAN
Scotland

Jean was listed as 40 in 1774 upon her arrival in America. At the time of her marriage to Thomas Guthrie she was listed as a resident of Botriphnie, Banffshire, Scotland, perhaps her birthplace, too.

There are 8 birth/baptismal records for Jean Duncan in Botriphnie, but only 1 close to the estimated 1734 date: Jean Duncan daughter of George Duncan and Janet Gauld on 7 May 1732. These are prospective parents.

1754: MARRIAGE of THOMAS GUTHRIE & JEAN DUNCAN
Botriphnie, Banffshire, Scotland

Thomas Guthrie and Jean Duncan both in this parish pledged to marry 27 July 1754 and married on 6 August 1754. Botriphnie Parish Records.

About 1756: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – MARGARET GUTHRIE
Scotland, presumably either Banff or Orkney

About 1757: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – HELEN GUTHRIE
Scotland, presumably either Banff or Orkney

1761: BIRTH of SON – ADAM GUTHRIE
Sandwick, Orkney, Scotland about 19 April 1761

19 April 1761. Baptized: Adam lawful son to Thomas Guthrie and Jean Duncan witnesses Robert Irving and several others.

About 1762: BIRTH of SON – THOMAS GUTHRIE
Scotland, presumably Orkney

About 1764: BIRTH of SON – JOHN GUTHRIE
Scotland, presumably Orkney

1770: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – JEAN GUTHRIE
Scotland, presumably Orkney

1774: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – JENNET GUTHRIE
Scotland, presumably Orkney

1774: EMIGRATION from SCOTLAND to GEORGIA

Thomas Guthrie, 42, a farmer in Stromnes, Orkney, SCT, with wife Jean, 40, and children Margaret, 18, Helen, 17, Adam, 14, Thomas, 13, John, 10, Jean, 4, and Janet, 4 months, emigrated from Kirkwall, Orkney to Savannah, Georgia on the ship ‘Marlborough’, indentured servants to Thomas Brown in Georgia.

After 1774: BIRTH of DAUGHTER – ALINOR
Georgia or South Carolina, presumably

1778: SOUTH CAROLINA EARLY CENSUS INDEX
Camden District, South Carolina, USA

This Possible Match Includes: Thomas Gater

1780: SOUTH CAROLINA EARLY CENSUS INDEX
Camden District, South Carolina, USA

This Possible Match Includes: Thomas Gater

1790: US CENSUS of SOUTH CAROLINA
Abbeville, South Carolina, USA

Thomas Guttery Household:
2 – Males 16 and over
2 – Females
4 – Total Household Members / Free White Persons

Before 1797: FAMILY DEATHS (PRESUMED)
Abbeville, South Carolina, USA

Those family members not mentioned in Thomas Guthrie’s 1797 will are presumed to be dead by that date. These include: Jean Duncan (wife), Helen Guthrie (daughter), Adam Guthrie (son), and Thomas Guthrie (son).

1797: DEATH of THOMAS GUTHRIE
Abbeville, South Carolina, USA

Thomas Guthrie’s will was dated 18 March 1797. He left his plantation and the majority of his property to his son John Guttrey. Daughter Margaret Thomas was to receive 2 sheep. Daughter Jean Houston to have 1 cow and calf. Daughter Alenor to have one three year old heifer. Daughter Jennet two cow calves, two heifers & one two year old colt, one feather bed and bedding and shelf furniture. Executors: James Harrigard and Alexander Clarke, Jr. Proved 27 Mar 1797.


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